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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/sztosz/48/1251_2.png" class="avatar"> sztosz:</div>
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<p>The thing with docker images is, that they are build from docker files, that can be build from other docker files with <code>FROM</code> directive like this</p>
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<p>The worse thing is that all that gets statically linked into your final container image.</p>
<p>There used to be a time that when you had a very severe C library bug, all you needed to do was update it on your hosts, reboot, done. People in the '80s and '90s worked really hard to add dynamic linking, etcetera, to Unix. Precisely to enable this level of system management.</p>
<p>Now, we’re twenty years later and people actively promote containerized microservices which are <em>exactly</em> the sort of statically linked executables that were so hard to manage and prompted dynamic linking.</p>
<p>Now, you run your 50-microservice PaaS with a couple of thousand instances and the CVE lands on glibc - everybody has to rebuild and redeploy everything.</p>
<p>It’s beyond stupid, frankly, and I’m waiting for the day that Docker will sport “dynamic container linking”, so a perfectly fine wheel gets reinvented in the most horrendously complex way imaginable, because that’s how Sillicon Valley (where, alas, too much of our tooling gets built) rolls.</p> 
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								<p>GUI tools using docker: <a href="https://github.com/StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">GitHub - StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker · GitHub</a></p> 
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								<p>Docker + Compose in development was a game changer for us. It used to take, at minimum, an entire day for new hires to get all the dependencies they needed to get a project working. The more junior the hire the longer it took. Now it only takes 15 min. Most people forget they’re in a container after a while so the experience is mostly seamless. This setup also makes jumping around to different projects a breeze.</p>
<p>I know this is one of those hot button topics for developers. I’ve been called many things for advocating this setup. However, I can’t argue with results. It’s worked wonders for us.</p> 
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									<span>Scenic Core Team</span>
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								<p>How big is your team? I think that makes a big difference on if this investment in a standardized development infrastructure and tooling makes sense.</p> 
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								<p>Took me zero in a previous job where we used Boxen to configure development laptops. After the initial run, all the code was checked out, compiled, and ready to roll. Automating this on Linux, of course, would’ve been even easier, probably just a single apt package.</p>
<p>I <em>do</em> actually get the whole docker-compose thing for development - almost more than for deployment - but there are too many open problems. Like people insisting using MacOS for development, where Docker is superslow (if you want to, which I hope you do, have your code still sit on your host’s filesystem so you can use all your tools against it), and package management various between non-existent and broken. And then there’s the whole thing of having to wrap very complicated container invocations in scripts, although if you can use the docker-compose hammer everything becomes a bit simpler.</p>
<p>Where I like docker-compose under development the most is if a system has a ton of dependencies that must be there to do development. Our Rails app wants MySQL, Memcached, and a handful of service stubs, and wrapping that in a single docker-compose file makes sense. Stuffing the Rails app in there as well? Not so much, in my experience, it is either too slow (MacOS) or not needed (Linux).</p>
<p>To me, it almost smells like Docker and compose are seen as silver bullets, but to me they’re just easier but not necessarily better tools and if you couldn’t do this before, you probably haven’t looked hard enough; that’s probably my biggest gripe, that when people discover the Docker hammer they refuse to acknowledge that there’s anything but nails.</p>
<p>[And yes, I might be seen as ranting on MacOS. Developers choosing MacOS seems to me a bit reason that things are hard to setup - no package management, a whimsical vendor that constantly breaks things, a reasonable idea - brew - that I think got out of hand and also constantly breaks things, and superslow Docker integration. If that is your chosen development platform, you need indeed to reach for work-arounds to have any chance at a decently reproducible development environment. Interestingly enough, the work-around is called “we use Linux for development but we hide it in containers so that we don’t have to admit it” or something like that. I just took the logical conclusion and installed Linux on my Macbooks, and suddenly my dev env became stable, predictable, and repeatable … ;-)]</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/axelson/48/26351_2.png" class="avatar"> axelson:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>How big is your team? I think that makes a big difference on if this investment in a standardized development infrastructure and tooling makes sense.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>We don’t have a large team but we do have any number of contractors coming in and out. So getting them up to speed as quickly as possible is really important for us.</p>
<p>It took me a weekend to get the basics of Docker and Compose down and I rolled it out for a project the next Monday. Was able to get everybody on the project productive in a couple hours. I also put some basic images together we use for every project. So there was the time it took me to make those but it was probably 30 min. to an hour each. Of course, there’s the ongoing learning but as long as people are spending their time working on their projects and not fiddling with their environment I’m happy.</p>
<p>I imagine we’ve saved several thousand man hours over the last two years.</p>
<p>Every team is different and what we did may not make sense for everyone. This is just my experience.</p> 
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								<p>I am a huge and strong advocate of not using MAC to develop software that will run under Linux.</p>
<p>Putting it in another perspective… Always strive to use the native platform for development and production.</p>
<p>Now why I am strong advocate of using Docker:</p>
<ul>
<li>Parity between environments., like development, staging and production.</li>
<li>Same exact environment across all developers machines.</li>
<li>Same environment will be used in CI pipeline.</li>
<li>Immutable infrastructure, that means is reproducible as many times as you want.</li>
</ul>
<p>Some additional benefits I like:</p>
<ul>
<li>I can play with many versions of a software as I want without a need to install them in the host.</li>
<li>My OS is always in a pristine condition, almost as in the day I installed it from scratch, making upgrades a breeze.</li>
<li>Same development environment in home and at work is just at a distance of some key presses.</li>
<li>Security once I am reducing the attack surface in my Host… Yes I know that some claim that Docker cannot guarantee 100% that the container isolation is not violated, but still some more layers to overcome by any attacker.</li>
</ul>
<p>GUI’s I run from Docker during development:</p>
<ul>
<li>Sublime Text 3</li>
<li>Vscode</li>
<li>Android Studio 3 with the Emulator.</li>
<li>Postman</li>
<li>Mysql Workbench</li>
</ul>
<p>Plus Docker Stacks for any programming language I want to code in.</p>
<p>Any new technology has always some people that simple are not open mind enough to give it a chance without leaving out their initial bias, while others just had a bad experience and than become strong  advocates against it.</p>
<p>Without open minds and evolution the wheel would never been invented, the man would never arrived to the moon and I can keep going <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">The problem then of course is, how do you invoke that dockerized IDE?
</code></pre>
<p>No problem at all. Take a look at <a href="https://github.com/StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker/blob/master/elixir-intellij-noVNC.jpg" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">elixir-dev-anywhere-docker/elixir-intellij-noVNC.jpg at master · StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker · GitHub</a>. Intellij is running in the browser, it was started via a right mouse menu there (openbox, see config here <a href="https://github.com/StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker/blob/master/openbox-config/.config/openbox/menu.xml" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">elixir-dev-anywhere-docker/openbox-config/.config/openbox/menu.xml at master · StefanHoutzager/elixir-dev-anywhere-docker · GitHub</a>). The docker env must be running of course.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/exadra37/48/9183_2.png" class="avatar"> Exadra37:</div>
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<p>Same development environment in home and at work is just at a distance of some key presses.</p>
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<p>Plus you can work from home in a browser with your dev environment running at work.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/docker-instead-of-an-elixir-version-manager-split-thread/14125/20">Post #19</a>
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		          <img alt="cdegroot" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/cdegroot/120/4644_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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                  cdegroot
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								<p>Thanks for proving my point by pointing me at that repo <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slightly_smiling_face.png?v=15" title=":slightly_smiling_face:" class="emoji" alt=":slightly_smiling_face:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>This is indeed <em>much</em> simpler than the ~10 lines I’ve added to a ~100 line Chef zero config to set things up natively (<a href="https://github.com/cdegroot/chef-zero-laptop-setup" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://github.com/cdegroot/chef-zero-laptop-setup</a>). And I don’t have to run stuff in a browser, i can just fullscreen emacs and get a clutter-free native experience.</p>
<p>YMMV, everyone to their own, TIMTOWDI, but yeah, I’ll stick with the error of my ways and keep it simple.</p> 
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