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<p>Does your approach with mutation watchers work with general render functions?</p>
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<p>Mutation watchers in as far as checking for changes on the vdom, though my current dev iteration of bs-tea uses kind of ‘pipes’ to mark areas instead.  But currently I’m not sure you mean by ‘general render function’?  Do you mean calling something else to return a vdom from inside the vdom?  If so then the lazy construct can do that.  Do you mean rendering, say, a javascript owned element?  Then not yet but that’s planned as the CustomNode, however I find webcomponents better for that anyway and should be used and work fine in the current system (as does bucklescript-tea work perfectly inside a web component, I find the whole concept of chaning javascript calls to build the DOM tree a horrible misdesign that a lot of people do for who knows what reasons, webcomponents are superior).</p> 
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								<p>I’m yalking about having something like:</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">inner_vdom_fragment = f(state)
</code></pre>
<p>Is this what you consider a bad design decision?</p> 
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<p>I think that the problem here is latency alone, not <em>chatinness</em> .</p>
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<p><img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/original/2X/e/ec97a4d20dca83c1d59b0839e4f159c141fa11df.gif?v=15" title=":icon_question:" class="emoji emoji-custom only-emoji" alt=":icon_question:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<blockquote>
<p><strong>The Eight Fallacies of Distributed Computing</strong><br>
<em>Peter Deutsch</em></p>
<p>Essentially everyone, when they first build a distributed application, makes the following eight assumptions. All prove to be false in the long run and all cause big trouble and painful learning experiences.</p>
<ol>
<li>The network is reliable.</li>
<li><strong>Latency is zero.</strong></li>
<li>Bandwidth is infinite.</li>
<li>The network is secure.</li>
<li>Topology doesn’t change.</li>
<li>There is one administrator.</li>
<li>Transport cost is zero.</li>
<li>The network is homogeneous.</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
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<p>Given that latency in the real world is always greater-than-zero, chattiness will always create problems (prefer fewer messages with larger payloads (i.e. more coarse grained messages)).</p>
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<p><strong>The Web trades latency for massive scalability.</strong> If you have a problem domain that is highly sensitive to latency (e.g. foreign exchange trading), then Web-based solutions are not a great idea. If, however, you can accept latency in the order of seconds, or even minutes or hours, then the Web is likely a suitable platform.</p>
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<p><a href="https://www.infoq.com/articles/webber-rest-workflow" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">source</a></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
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<p>Given that latency in the real world is always greater-than-zero, chattiness will always create problems</p>
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<p>Chatiness as in “sends data over the network” is a problem, of course. Because of network latency. I thought you were referring to the amount of data trabsmitted over the network, which is not a very important variable (as long as it’s greater than zero!)… We are actually saying the same thing in different ways.</p> 
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<p>I’m yalking about having something like:</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">inner_vdom_fragment = f(state)
</code></pre>
<p>Is this what you consider a bad design decision?</p>
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<p>In my Tea library parlance would that be something like where <code>f</code> is a function call typed like <code>model -&gt; 'msg vdom</code> or what is it all?</p>
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<p>Given that latency in the real world is always greater-than-zero, chattiness will always create problems (prefer fewer messages with larger payloads (i.e. more coarse grained messages)).</p>
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<p>Which is why I love that the BEAM builds timeouts into everything.  ^.^</p> 
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									<span>Creator of Drab</span>
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<p>Drab seems to use “mutation watchers”</p>
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<p>Hmm, I am not aware of it, but maybe because of the terminology.</p> 
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<p>Hmm, I am not aware of it, but maybe because of the terminology.</p>
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<p>Yeah I’m curious about that as well, mutation watchers in javascript was turned down by the spec so they don’t exist anymore (and hard to emulate reliably, look at all the pain that polymer had to emulate it).</p> 
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								<p>I’ve never heard about mutation watchers before, this is why I doubt I am using it in Drab. But it always may be an issue with a terminology.</p>
<p>I am afraid Drab is not so sophisticated. It uses something I may call “naive direct updaters” than “mutation watchers” <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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