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								<p>Any thoughts on using Elixir as the glue between Big Data applications written in other languages? As others have pointed out, numerical computation isn’t a strong suit of the EVM. However, I’m of the opinion so far that Elixir may very well be one of the best possible “glue languages” in existence, and if so, it seems like it would be much better to use it to piece together code in other languages more suitable to this domain.</p>
<p>Julia seems to be the most Elixir-like language suited to numerical computation / Big Data, though I’ve never personally used it (yet):</p><aside class="onebox allowlistedgeneric" data-onebox-src="https://julialang.org/">
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      <a href="https://julialang.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">The Julia Programming Language</a>
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<h3><a href="https://julialang.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">The Julia Language</a></h3>

  <p>Official website for the Julia programming language</p>


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								<p>I agree with the forum.</p>
<p>In order to process big amounts of data, you need a way to store it, and a way to process the data. The storage is solved with HDFS. Note that it’s not the only option, you can store it with ceph,  GFS, etc. In fact, HDFS started as a way to replicate Google’s GFS.</p>
<p>Now, regarding processing, I still don’t get why Hadoop and Spark are so popular. As many mentioned, Java is not the most suitable language. It’s OK to build a nice web service easily, but it’s not the best language for high intensive data mining. The same applies to Spark and Scala. So, why Scala? My guess is that Scala introduces functional programming with Java syntax on top of JVM.</p>
<p>I believe that erlang and elixir are far superior. So, you don’t even need Hadoop for serious data mining. You just need a storage engine (MongoDB, Riak, CouchDB or whatever). If you want to operate on files, you just need a distributed FS, and I believe that Ceph for example is much better than HDFS. Then, you implement the entire mining in Erlang or Elixir, which provides much more than what Hadoop of Spark gives you (fault tolerance distributed system with native map reduce). If you need any need to do any data intensive stuff, you can implement them on C or C++, provide a C interface and called those functions from within Erlang/Elixir.</p>
<p>This makes much more sense that installing few different frameworks which want to emulate what you can do in a few lines of code. Unfortunately, nobody seems to implement big data and data mining this way.</p> 
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								<p>By the way, somebody suggested Julia, Rust or other languages for data intensive stuff. No, only C or C++ apply here. The reason is that only these 2 languages provide full control over the memory. You can align the data exactly as you want, allocate or free memory at will, etc. Using those tools and knowing the computer architecture and how computers work, you can increase the data density, fully utilize the cache lines and increase substantially the speed. Other languages can’t do that, cause they are design to provide you a way to manage the memory layout.</p>
<p>A lot of people use python, R or mathematica for data mining. The only reason why they do that is because they have libraries which implement most of the stuff, from clustering to neural networks. You just create a small script, and you can play around with models. This is very good for uncovering data patterns and models. Now, if you want to apply those models on large data sets and near real time, you will have to move them to C or C++.</p> 
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<p>The reason is that only these 2 languages [C and C++] provide full control over the memory.</p>
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<p>You are wrong. There is also ASM, it gives you at least as much control over the memory as well as C, and even finer control about the CPU cycles used, assuming you know your target architecture.</p>
<p>Also there is Rust. If you don’t limit yourself to releases but are willing to use nightlys, you can also use extensions, which do allow a fine grained memory control. Only that you have to convince the compiler about your definition beeing memory-safe.</p>
<p>And since rust uses LLVM under the hood it is as portable as C.</p> 
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								<p>No, assembly gives you control over the microprocessor, which register you want to load, etc. It doesn’t allow you to create complex structures and store them in a very specific order in the main memory. Well, you can actually do it, but it’s so difficult that nobody does it.</p>
<p>Yes, if you want to have full control over the CPU cycles, you can embed some assembly with SIMD instructions in your C or C++ code, but I don’t see anybody writing large scale software in assembly.</p>
<p>Regarding rust, why would I use Rust when I can use C++, which is much more mature? My feeling is that many people and companies try to reinvent something like C++ but in a safe way, but they end up with something that is inferior.</p> 
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								<p>I second that no sane person would write large scale programs in ASM <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> But still, if you would, you can design datastructures nicely aligned and even bitpacked as you can in C, but you don’t have syntax support.</p>
<hr>
<p>Why would you use elixir when you can use erlang, which is much more mature?</p>
<p>Denying new languages simply because they are new and there are already others that have the saim/similar goal, is not well thought.</p>
<p>Despite of the existence of Rust, I wouldn’t use C++ unless I really have to. That’s a thing of personal preferences. The existence of Rust makes it easier to avoid C++.</p>
<p>And I really like the promisses of rust. You got a memory leak in your program? Blame Mozilla Foundation and make them repair rust!</p>
<p>Languages, Computer Systems and reqwuirements evolve and as such there will new languages pop up. Some of them will die, others remain. And rust is a good candiate for survival.</p> 
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<p>A lot of people use python, R or mathematica for data mining. The only reason why they do that is because they have libraries which implement most of the stuff, from clustering to neural networks. You just create a small script, and you can play around with models. This is very good for uncovering data patterns and models. Now, if you want to apply those models on large data sets and near real time, you will have to move them to C or C++.</p>
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<p>I’ve worked with R a bit and most of the commonly used data mining libraries have the computationally intensive parts written in C.  This is also a reason for going with R.  Personally, I can’t get R to sink into my skull – I can never remember which syntax to use for anything.</p> 
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								<p>One opportunity for us is to make service similar to Zookeeper. Consider the following diagram which depicts how Kafka and Zookeeper interact, and it is similar for other systems such as Apache Storm.</p>
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<p>Brokers, producers and consumers use Zookeeper to manage and share state</p>
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<p><img src="http://cfile26.uf.tistory.com/image/2751C94C53211FB11221CC" width="690" height="551"></p>
<p>It is a type of coordination service and it’s exactly what OTP should take care of for us. I was thinking about <a class="mention" href="/u/cjbottaro" rel="nofollow">@cjbottaro</a>’s Tempest library. Once this library wants to scale across many machines, it will need some coordination between the processes in order to handle failures and retries and so on.</p>
<p>The key here is that the business need will drive the innovation; or, “scratch your own itch.” That is, if we can start to solve real problems by brewing our own Elixir data processing systems, then we have a real project to work from.</p> 
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								<p>Also nice to mention that google recently opened tencerflow</p><aside class="onebox allowlistedgeneric" data-onebox-src="https://www.oreilly.com/radar/a-poet-does-tensorflow/">
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      <a href="https://www.oreilly.com/radar/a-poet-does-tensorflow/" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc" title="02:00PM - 21 March 2016">O’Reilly Media – 21 Mar 16</a>
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<h3><a href="https://www.oreilly.com/radar/a-poet-does-tensorflow/" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">A poet does TensorFlow</a></h3>

  <p>Pete Warden’s instructions on building a deep learning classifier looked so simple, I had to try it myself.</p>


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                  cjbottaro
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/uranther/48/2627_2.png" class="avatar"> uranther:</div>
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<p>I was thinking about <a class="mention" href="/u/cjbottaro" rel="nofollow">@cjbottaro</a>’s Tempest library. Once this library wants to scale across many machines, it will need some coordination between the processes in order to handle failures and retries and so on.</p>
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<p>I’ve been thinking about this a little too and thought of using Etcd instead of Zookeeper.  But I’m unsure of how to actually use it.  Using it keep track of the state of each processor, for every message they receive would absolutely destroy performance (I think) and also require a pretty beefy Etcd cluster to handle the traffic.  I should start a topic in the “Your Libraries and Projects” area to brainstrom…</p>
<p>Also, can you explain the benefit of recreating something like Etcd in Elixir?  Is it to remove the overhead of JSON over HTTP for each request?  To reduce operational complexity of having to maintain a separate coordination cluster?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p> 
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