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								<p>When Sony purchased Gaikai, they had run into trouble with their then current console - the PS3. They were selling it a hefty loss - it was just too ambitious and cost too much (and developing for it wasn’t easy either). It was a very rocky time for them.</p>
<p>So while I think that may have been what led them to look at Gaikai to begin with, the benefits you mention would certainly have been appealing to them and a major factor in why they acquired the firm - like you said cost is probably the biggest barrier for console gaming - and so being able to make gaming cheaper, while still offering high end graphics, could only be a good move since it would mean a larger userbase/more subscriptions etc.</p>
<p>Re streaming/input lag, etc they are getting better and better over time. Sony actually make some of the best TVs for gaming now, too.</p>
<p>Going back to LiveView, Drab, Texas etc, do you think it could be a great fit for things like Nerves devices? (As per my post <a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/lets-discuss-phoenix-liveview/16427/82" rel="nofollow">above</a>.)</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/lets-discuss-phoenix-liveview/16427/84">Post #83</a>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/astonj/48/15_2.png" class="avatar"> AstonJ:</div>
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<p>do you think it could be a great fit for things like Nerves devices?</p>
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<p>In what way? Personally I find it telling that a shop that already used <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kGoaUqcq4A" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Elm/Purescript</a> in the past has gone <a href="https://www.infoq.com/presentations/grisp" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">back to basics</a> with raw HTML/CSS/SVG/JS/DS3.js in their more recent work.</p>
<p>While it makes sense to complete the <strong><em>initial</em></strong> render on the serving device I don’t think IoT devices will take on any more <em>serving</em> than necessary.</p>
<p><em>Serve as much as is reasonable but no more than necessary.</em></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/astonj/48/15_2.png" class="avatar"> AstonJ:</div>
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<p>Going back to LiveView, Drab, Texas etc, do you think it could be a great fit for things like Nerves devices?</p>
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<p>absolutely - the less you’re pushing to the client and less computations you’re asking the client to do the better</p>
<p>edit: well that holds true for texas - I’ve not had  time to look into drab yet - I only just heard about for the first time a couple weeks before the conference! Texas does all the diffing on the server so the only thing the client is doing is applying changes from patches it gets over the socket or building the DOM from a typical HTML string.  With all of that said a browser is pretty heavy for IoT</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
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<p>Personally I find it telling that a shop that already used <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kGoaUqcq4A" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Elm/Purescript </a> in the past has gone <a href="https://www.infoq.com/presentations/grisp" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">back to basics </a> with raw HTML/CSS/SVG/JS/DS3.js in their more recent work.</p>
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<p><code>grisp</code>, as far as I can see, doesn’t actually concern itself with the frontend and none of Peer Stritzinger’s repos for it have any frontend code in them at all. I don’t think the app in the video is more than an example of what you can have and I wouldn’t read too much in it.</p>
<p>Edit: Personally I thought Phil Freeman stepping down from maintaining it would make PureScript less attractive, but it really doesn’t seem like it’s slowed down at all and he’s still involved. 0.12 was released successfully with a ton of stuff in it and there’s still a healthy turnout in terms of contributors.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/chrismccord/48/24233_2.png" class="avatar"> chrismccord:</div>
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<p>One big big distinction is we have stateful components on the backend, where turbolinks requests a stateless page/fragment.</p>
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<p>Is it going to be expected that we use turbolinks for speedy GET page transitions and liveview for partial updates on existing pages, or do you plan for liveview to completely eliminate turbolinks at some point?</p> 
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								<p>I’ve been exploring <a href="https://unpoly.com/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://unpoly.com/</a> as a more powerful turbolinks alternative - plus it comes without the bad taste that some people have with turbolinks (which is really because people having issues with turbolinks didn’t read the documentation and understand the library before using it)</p>
<p>I don’t know if liveview intends on making new page requests happen over the websocket, but with texas and drab you should be able to use turbolinks or upoly just fine - and they are very robust solutions to rich user interfaces imho</p>
<p>that’s not to say texas (or drab maybe?  can’t speak for the drab folks) won’t ever concern itself with new page requests - that’s just to say unpoly seems to have very thoroughly solved that problem so it’s not a high priority for me anyways</p> 
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									<span>Creator of Phoenix</span>
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								<p>No, <em>zero</em> expectations on turbolinks usage. GET requests for phoenix applications are already speedy <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>There may be a similar mechanism later on for transitioning from one view to another, without a URL change, but a turbolinks like feature in itself is not a current goal of mine.</p> 
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								<p>Thanks, so continue using Turbolinks (if anything just for full page transitions / URL changes).</p>
<p>IMO even with Phoenix being speedy, you can very much feel the difference between Turbolinks vs no Turoblinks, mainly because the browser has to parse so much CSS / JS on every request without Turbolinks. Even if it takes 500 microseconds for Phoenix to respond, all the asset parsing time is spent client side.</p> 
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								<p>the problem might be that phoenix is too fast <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/joy.png?v=15" title=":joy:" class="emoji" alt=":joy:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> - if users get used to really snappy interactions they may start interacting before the websocket is setup - that problem is solved with turbolinks (or my current interest is in unpoly)</p>
<p>that is to say a full page rerender will break and reconnect the websocket every time - unpoly and similar solves that problem by handling the “full page request” behind the scenes with ajax which keeps your current websocket alive</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/dgmcguire/48/12192_2.png" class="avatar"> dgmcguire:</div>
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<p>I’ve been exploring <a href="https://unpoly.com/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://unpoly.com/ </a> as a more powerful turbolinks alternative - plus it comes without the bad taste that some people have with turbolinks</p>
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<p>I have looked over unpoly’s docs but I always stuck with turbolinks, mainly because it is pretty drag / drop for just getting fast page transitions and the lib itself isn’t too massive.</p>
<p>Kind of hoping liveview will replace a lot of unpoly’s extra features.</p> 
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