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								<p>At my talk at ElixirConf EU I noted that:</p>
<ul>
<li><code>Country</code> is a political term, not a geographic one. And there are around <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes" rel="nofollow">105 disputed territories</a> around the world.</li>
<li>Therefore I recommend the CLDR practise of using the terms “Region” or “Territory” instead of “Country” in applications.</li>
</ul>
<p>I also recommended against using national flags to indicate language preferences (its fine to associate a flag with a territory) for a similar reason.</p>
<p>In IOS 16, Apple is also <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/06/14/macos-12-input-menu-flags" rel="nofollow">removing flags</a> from its input menus, following (or so it appears) the same underlying principle.</p>
<p>I was asked during the talk if there was a recommended alternative. Apart from using the locale name itself, I haven’t found a more visual and compelling means to communicate language selection.</p>
<p>I’d be most interested in any ideas the community might have.</p> 
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								<p><a href="https://hex.pm/packages/ex_cldr/2.33.0" rel="nofollow">ex_cldr version 2.33.0</a> is published to support Elixir 1.14.  All deprecation warnings are removed. As a result, support for Elixir 1.10 is discontinued. Elixir versions 1.11 through Elixir 1.14 are supported.</p>
<p>There was one issue with Elixir 1.14 causes a compilation error. The error was in generated code that uses the function <code>Cldr.Math.mod/2</code> which in earlier releases did not need to be specifically imported. For some reason in Elixir 1.14 it does need to be imported. Thankfully the change required for Elixir 1.14 also works perfectly well on Elixir 1.11 and later.</p>
<p>It is recommended to also update <code>gettext</code> to version <code>0.20.0</code> as well since that also removes Elixir 1.14 deprecation warnings.</p>
<p>The changelog entry for <code>ex_cldr 2.33.0</code> is:</p>
<h3><a name="p-257219-bug-fixes-1" class="anchor" href="#p-257219-bug-fixes-1" aria-label="Heading link" rel="nofollow"></a>Bug Fixes</h3>
<ul>
<li>Fixed a bug whereby <code>Cldr</code> would not compile due to a change to module alias resolution in generated code.  The root cause of the change has not been established but the fix, by specifically importing <code>Cldr.Math</code>, works on Elixir 1.14 and earlier releases back to Elixir 1.11.</li>
</ul>
<h3><a name="p-257219-enhancements-2" class="anchor" href="#p-257219-enhancements-2" aria-label="Heading link" rel="nofollow"></a>Enhancements</h3>
<ul>
<li>
<p>Removes warnings for Elixir 1.14.  As a result <code>ex_cldr</code> now supported with Elixir 1.11 and later only (support for Elixir 1.10 has been discontinued).</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Allow either <code>ratio 2.x</code> or <code>ratio 3.x</code> depdendencies to be configured. This library is only used during the development of <code>ex_cldr</code> and is not normally used by library consumers. However <a href="https://hex.pm/packages/ex_cldr_units" rel="nofollow">ex_cldr_units</a> does use <code>ratio</code> so this flexibility helps downstream maintenance, especially when <code>ratio</code> is updated to avoid Elixir 1.14 deprecation warnings.</p>
</li>
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								<p>Thanks <a class="mention" href="/u/kip" rel="nofollow">@kip</a>! I took a look at why things break, and this is the root cause:</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/elixir-cldr/cldr/blob/5e196280285a8eda5320c875dd025adc42230433/lib/cldr/plural_rules/transformer.ex#L38-L58" class="onebox" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">https://github.com/elixir-cldr/cldr/blob/5e196280285a8eda5320c875dd025adc42230433/lib/cldr/plural_rules/transformer.ex#L38-L58</a></p>
<p>We changed how we build the import metadata. It is probably best to avoid setting metadata by hand. My suggestion would be to expand the code above to the remote form:</p>
<pre><code>{{:., meta, [Elixir.Cldr.Math, :within]}, meta, [operand, range]}
</code></pre>
<p>Or use quote+import:</p>
<pre><code>import Elixir.Cldr.Math
quote do: within(unquote(operand), unquote(range))
</code></pre>
<p>But doing the import as you did and removing the Macro.prewalk is most likely the best call. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>Thank you José. I’ve learned a <em>lot</em> more since I wrote this part of the code (a few years ago now!) and it deserves some renovation. Thanks very much for taking the time to take a look, it’s much appreciated (and unexpected).</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/kip/48/1440_2.png" class="avatar"> kip:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I also recommended against using national flags to indicate language preferences (its fine to associate a flag with a territory) for a similar reason.</p>
<p>In IOS 16, Apple is also <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/06/14/macos-12-input-menu-flags" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">removing flags </a> from its input menus, following (or so it appears) the same underlying principle.</p>
<p>I was asked during the talk if there was a recommended alternative. Apart from using the locale name itself, I haven’t found a more visual and compelling means to communicate language selection.</p>
<p>I’d be most interested in any ideas the community might have.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Using flags is much more practical to scan the options visually, so I would still use them. IMHO the best solution would use geolocalisation to determine which flag to show for each language, e.g. an American would see the US flag for English whereas someone from England would see the UK flag, etc. There will always be people complaining though, as with everything.</p> 
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								<p>I understand your perspective. But as someone who travels quite a lot I really dislike geolocalisation. Where I am currently located is way down the list of signals that express my preferences.</p>
<p>I agree that a visual cue is really helpful and pleasing. But flags aren’t very respectful of many situations:</p>
<ul>
<li>I’m in Switzerland which has four national languages. Based upon my location, what would you show?  If I’m in Zurich then it may be that my normal daily language is “Swiss German” (ICU locale <code>gsw_CH</code>) which is a dialect of high German, but quite different too.  I don’t think I would expect a German flag to represent my preference.</li>
<li>I’m in Taiwan.  Not very respectful for people in Taiwan to show the flag of the PRC.</li>
<li>I’m in HK, part of the PRC. But I speak Cantonese and use Traditional Chinese characters. Which flag am I showing?</li>
</ul>
<p>There are lots more examples, these are just a couple. I don’t think its a matter of complaining so much as being respectful of the preferences your users want to express.</p> 
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								<p>That might work for the single language multiple countries case, but what about the single country, multiple languages case? E.g. in Switzerland there four official state languages (German, French, Italian, Romansh). Would you consider the swiss flag an appropiate flag to represent the language of Romansh? No other country has more Romansh speaking people, but it’s also not the most commonly used language in Switzerland.</p> 
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								<p>That’s why there are no perfect solution <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>People who travel a lot are a small, small percentage of the population so unless your website is targeting them especially I wouldn’t say it’s worth giving the majority a subpar experience.</p>
<p>As for the examples, that’s the beauty about geolocalisation:</p>
<ul>
<li>let’s say the Swiss don’t like to use the French/German/Italian flags, you could display the locales names instead of a flag just for them. Maybe they do like seeing those flags and recognize their practicality, in which case we can use those 3 flags and a regional flag for Romansh.</li>
<li>in Taiwan, why not show the Taiwanese flag? Otherwise I’m sure they have some historic or regional flag which would do well.</li>
<li>I don’t know the specifics for HK, but you could have a look at how they handle things in their websites and do something similar (maybe there is a Cantonese flag even!).</li>
</ul>
<p><a class="mention" href="/u/lostkobrakai" rel="nofollow">@LostKobrakai</a> again that’s the beauty of geolocalisation. It solves 90% of the edge cases, and for the rest it’s always possible to fall back to the locales names. I like this much better than removing flags for everyone.</p>
<p>In the Romansh case, maybe this flag would do : <a href="https://www.eurominority.eu/index.php/en/romansh-people/" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Romansh people - Eurominority.eu</a> (we don’t have to restrict ourselves to country flags). The idea is that by assuming the user origin (and thus culture even though we will miss sometimes), we can find the most culturally appropriate way to signify the linguistic options that are available.</p> 
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									<span>ex_cldr Core Team</span>
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								<p>About <a href="https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_22_3214" rel="nofollow">700 million people cross European borders annually</a> and as of 2018 there are <a href="https://ourworldindata.org/tourism" rel="nofollow">about 1.8 billion international tourist</a> trips every year.  So I’m not sure its a small minority, but I understand your point.</p>
<p>Given the number of specialisations you’re suggesting could be required to reflect local customs and cultures, it still feels to me that simply using the language/locale name in the script of that locale is the most consistent, “correct” and straight forward.  And given <a href="http://blog.unicode.org/2022/03/the-past-and-future-of-flag-emoji.html" rel="nofollow">Unicode’s most recent stance on new emoji flags</a>, a strategy on regional flags will be more complex to implement too.</p>
<p>Nevetheless I fully expect that the use of national flags to represent languages and locales will be popular for the very reasons you mention.</p> 
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<p>And given <a href="http://blog.unicode.org/2022/03/the-past-and-future-of-flag-emoji.html" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Unicode’s most recent stance on new emoji flags </a>, a strategy on regional flags will be more complex to implement too.</p>
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<p>Interesting link. I can understand how much of a pain it would be to implement all the ever-changing local flags. It would have been good to have a descriptive way to define flags instead, similar to what has been in use in heraldry for many centuries, but it would go against our modern definition of “pixel-perfect” design. It’s a shame because emojis themselves use similar combinations and are not supposed to be rendered the same in different versions nor devices.</p> 
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