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                  josevalim
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									<span>Creator of Elixir</span>
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<p>Although I started thinking this would be best done as configuration passed around in each structurally compatible <code>Date</code> , <code>Time</code> or <code>DateTime</code> struct or map, the variations are too many. I now feel it is better that this detail be backed into a module that implements the <code>Calendar</code> behaviour. This doesn’t make implementing a calendar any more complex. It does potentially have the side effect of having to generate calendar modules at runtime for some use cases.</p>
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<p>I am not sure I agree with this. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>The instants are the same and they are represented by the same year, month, day, hour, minute and second, so it does not feel to me they should be different calendars. To me, it is the same calendar, but it wants to be traversed or viewed in different ways. My suggestion would be to explore a WeekTraverser or WeekBuilder or some sort of behaviour that focuses on exploring a given calendar through different interpretations of its weeks. It may be even something that can be implemented on top of iso days (and therefore calendar agnostic)?</p>
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<p>Formatting for <code>strftime</code> should not be the calendars concern (in my opinion).</p>
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<p>I agree with this but the calendar has to provide a default behaviour. So the recent proposal has a default <code>week_of_year</code>  but you can customize it via the <code>week_of_year</code> option. The calendar also provides the default values for preferred time and so on and I don’t think we can escape this.</p>
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<p>Format encoding: <code>%&lt;flags&gt;&lt;width&gt;&lt;conversion&gt;</code> .</p>
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<p>While I really like this idea, then we are no longer implementing strftime, so it needs to be a very conscious choice. The biggest benefit IMO is that it gets rid of all the padding options and, as you said, removes formatting concerns from the calendar.</p>
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<p>Flags (based upon the Ruby implementation)</p>
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<p>Those flags are all officially supported by strftime but I decided to go only with three related to padding for now for simplicity. We can always add more later.</p>
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<p>I have included an <code>options</code> argument to <code>strftime</code> above because for localisation a locale name needs to be specified. In Python a <code>locale</code> is part of the stdlib and runtime environment but not so Elixir.</p>
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<p>Isn’t this then forcing localization and therefore formatting concern into the calendar? I would prefer if the calendar does not receive a locale, ever. With the latest proposal, you can localize everything like this:</p>
<pre><code>Calendar.format(datetime, "%format", MyApp.Calendar.format_config(:pt_br))
</code></pre>
<p>So I believe we are going with the loose contract you mentioned.</p>
<p><a class="mention" href="/u/kip" rel="nofollow">@kip</a> assuming that we will merge the flags and width syntax that you proposed, are there any other changes you would like to see based on my reply?</p>
<p>Thank you.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/josevalim" rel="nofollow">@josevalim</a> Looks good.  I understand why the  <code>MyApp.Calendar.format_config(:pt_br)</code> approach.  And its easy to integrate with my Cldr project so that Cldr users can adopt <code>Calendar.format</code> easily.</p>
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<p>I am not sure I agree with this. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Totally ok with not agreeing.  I just can’t reconcile how to do what you suggest and still use the <code>Date</code>, <code>Time</code> and <code>DateTime</code> standard structs which have a <code>:calendar</code> field only.  Also every calendar is basically just a different representation of the same moments in time so by extension aren’t you saying there is only one calendar and multiple different representations that model year, month, day in alternate ways?  Anyway, off topic for this thread.</p>
<p>I have nothing else to add to the proposal and I think a lot of users will benefit from it.</p> 
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<p>Anyway, off topic for this thread.</p>
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<p>Good call, I copied the discussion to a new thread so we can talk more about it: <a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/how-to-support-multiple-week-calendars-in-elixir/18783" class="inline-onebox" rel="nofollow">How to support multiple week calendars in Elixir?</a></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/josevalim/48/1787_2.png" class="avatar"> josevalim:</div>
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<p>week_of_year - a function that receives calendar, year, month, day and returns the week_of_year tuple</p>
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<p>In german speaking countries we have the concept of a calender week, which differs to a simple <strong>week_of_year</strong> number. I am unsure what value the <strong>week_of_year</strong> number would return in the current planned implementation.</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>A <strong>week_of_year</strong> can be based on the 1JAN of the year, where any date from 1JAN to the 7JAN (both inclusive) is interpreted as WeekNr=1, and date between 8JAN to 14JAN (inclusive) is interpreted as WeekNr=2, etc. This could be called <strong>week_of_year</strong>.</p>
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<li>
<p>Another way to define a <strong>week_of_year</strong> is to use a relevant first_day_of_week, e.g. MON, and then look to see how many days of the start of the year are in the first week, and if the number of days &gt;=4 (for a 7 day based calender) then this is the first week, if there are three or less, then the week is calculated as being a part of the previous year’s last year number:<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week#Week_numbering" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week#Week_numbering</a><br>
This could be called <strong>week_of_year_iso</strong>.</p>
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<p>The calculation of the <strong>week_of_year</strong> might thus depend not only on the calender and specific date, but also on the defined first day of the week for the calender as well as the type of <strong>week_of_year</strong> number the user is looking for. Just having a <strong>week_of_year</strong> option might not suffice to differentiate what type of WeekNr ought to be returned, or the returned WeekNr might not be what a caller expects.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/rudolfb" rel="nofollow">@rudolfb</a> the <code>week_of_year</code> would be customizable, so it would return whatever you want. But we have currently removed it from the proposal because we are still not sure that’s the direction we want to go <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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<p>Format encoding: <code>%&lt;flags&gt;&lt;width&gt;&lt;conversion&gt;</code> .</p>
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<p><a class="mention" href="/u/kip" rel="nofollow">@kip</a> we have decided to accept this extension but we will keep the default formatting based on ISO. The rationale is the following, if we keep the default without padding, then it means that <em>all calendars users have to add padding</em>.</p>
<p>However, if we keep the ISO convention, then the ISO users do not have to add explicit padding, but non-ISO users will have to add them exactly as before. This keeps it convenient for  ISO users (the majority), it allows us to follow the strftime spec, it allows us to reduce knowledge of formatting in the calendar, while providing useful features to other calendars.</p>
<p>Finally, I would like to note that, by figuring out all of these trade-offs with strftime, we have actually solved the problems we had with ICU. However, we are planning to go with strftime because it has a much smaller surface API.</p>
<p>Do you have any final thoughts? I will update the proposal with those latest changes.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/josevalim" rel="nofollow">@josevalim</a> No final thoughts.  <code>strftime</code> makes more sense for most users I think since its a familiar api across languages and having the format default to the ISO calendar aligns well too.</p>
<p>Lastly, this approach still allows <code>ex_cldr_dates_times</code> to serve configuration very easily to <code>strftime</code> which I think will be helpful for some people.</p> 
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								<p>Hi everyone, we are glad to say this proposal has been accepted. The next step is to develop it as a separate library for further validation. We will let you know once that happens.</p> 
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								<p>This might be out of scope for the standard formatting, but I had to display hours with value &gt;24h for late night schedules.</p>
<p>The idea is simple, instead of writing <code>2019-01-01T02:00</code> we have <code>2018-12-31T26:00</code>.<br>
This is quite common in Japan, but I’m sure it is used elsewhere. This is used mostly for event schedules (cinema, tv shows, conferences…). The idea is that it’s the continuation of the days you woke up.</p>
<p>I wonder how this kind of date could be formatted in elixir.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/kuon" rel="nofollow">@kuon</a> in those cases, you can always interpolate the value directly on the format string, mixed with the formatting syntax.</p> 
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