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								<p>I forgot to say, but of course, being in OCaml, when you build a page with Ocsigen the compiler will ensure that the html tag tree is valid <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/dimitarvp/48/38664_2.png" class="avatar"> dimitarvp:</div>
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<p>I feel that languages like OCaml can <em>really</em> make a dent</p>
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<p>I wish! The language is great, but for it to come out of its niche a lot of work needs to be done on the tooling and docs especially (also, find a way to centralise the community a little bit in order to be able to drive the mammoth). New languages are often half-specced indeed, but at least their creators understand that appearance and ease of approach matter, and they matter a lot!</p>
<p>Edit: you should have a look <a href="https://ocsigen.org/home/intro.html" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Redirecting…</a><br>
I see that they upgraded their website. Good! And they support reasonML. Actually I hope that reasonML and the hype people @ facebook will make the tooling that the Ocaml community has always lacked. They have the money and know that stuff like this matter for a wider adoption.</p> 
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								<p>Yeah, Ocsigen is a fascinating idea, but apparently more of a research project than a practical production-ready system.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/nodemodule" rel="nofollow">@nodemodule</a> provides good reasons for choosing OO; better chances to land in a job or build a team. There is not much choice when you start looking for work with elixir, moreover a lot of job offerings are for blockchain and chat-things. Nice to learn the language building those type of applications maybe, but very <em>very</em> limited. I think it is a good language for the regular administrative sort of applications I have been building for 20+ years. I for me am distracted by the inheritance of what seems to be the ruby culture; the influence of agile guru’s <a href="http://darkagilemanifesto.org/dark-side-of-agile-janes-succi-splash-2012.pdf" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">darkagilemanifesto.org</a>  (some of those who signed the manifesto have been part of the ruby community). Name an agile elephant in the room: TDD, paste what a renowned scientist said about it <a href="https://archive.li/2zZKy#selection-293.30-305.209" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://archive.li/2zZKy#selection-293.30-305.209</a> here and silence is your answer. Afraid to hurt the believers? No good answer, just wanting to move on with TDD?  Bashing OO: no problem, “now we can talk!”. I see it in a lot in elixir job offerings: “experience in TDD appreciated”; enough for me to lose interest. Programming for some time in a functional language helps learning to write better code in OO languages. A lot of those evolved to multi-paradigm.</p> 
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								<p>I faced a similar decision in late 2016. I was choosing between Elixir/Phoenix and Elm, and studied both for several months. I’d come from Ruby on Rails, where I built an app for my business from 2010-2015. For that, I’d avoided Javascript (even peppering) as much as possible.</p>
<p>Elixir’s forthcoming LiveView (or current alternatives) might have tipped the balance, but I went for Elm because I wanted to have a more dynamic user interface. Where I need a backend server, I’m using AWS Lambda, but I’m still studying Elixir and expect to still find uses for it.</p>
<p>I think both Elixir and Elm are great choices if you want a language that is “fun, productive, and that is easy to scale”, and the two complement each other well. And both are in a stable phase right now, with Elm recently getting a much-improved compiler (in terms of speed and code size).</p> 
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								<p>Elixir/Phoenix and Elm are not competing in the same category. Elm is typically Frontend, while Elixir/Phoenix are more Backend.</p>
<p>You do not really avoid JS when using Elm, You are writing JS, but with another syntax.</p>
<p>Elm is not really good in interop with JS, it is hard to take advantage of the numerous JS libs available.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/48.png" class="avatar"> StefanHoutzager:</div>
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<p><a class="mention" href="/u/nodemodule" rel="nofollow">@nodemodule</a> provides good reasons for choosing OO;</p>
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<p>Given how the opening post is phrased I would say that recommending Elixir in this case would be irresponsible. So I didn’t. The most appropriate response had already been made:</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/sanswork/48/39354_2.png" class="avatar"> sanswork:</div>
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<p>If you’re specifically looking to learn something that will lead to a job then check local job ads to see what companies near you are using most and learn that.</p>
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<p>I simply pointed out that the mainstream choice has challenges of it’s own that its proponents often gloss over. And I think Garrett Smith’s talk sheds some light on why BEAM based development isn’t more popular today.</p>
<p>Other than that development by slogan and some of the BS that results from it whether it’s associated with TDD, Agile(trademark) or whatever is an industry wide phenomenon. The market’s desire for quick fixes seems to attract a lot of snake oil salesmen.</p>
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<p>Programming for some time in a functional language helps learning to write better code in OO languages.</p>
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<p>Yes, but many people believe that using functional features in imperative languages is good enough but they don’t get away from <em>place oriented programming</em> until they are <em>forced</em> to deal with, for example, immutability.</p>
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<p>A lot of those evolved to multi-paradigm.</p>
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<p>It should work but it often doesn’t. The promise of multi-paradigm languages often isn’t realized as the paradigm choice is often a reflection of the organization’s/developer’s comfort zone rather than its appropriateness to solving the problem at hand.</p>
<p>There simply is no <em>Be-all and End–all</em> way of doing things.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
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<p>The market’s desire for quick fixes seems to attract a lot of snake oil salesmen.</p>
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<p>If that’s not one of the best descriptions of the IT area I don’t know what is. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/original/2X/a/a1c41c89c299189a3f85edfeb4973563d8bac781.gif?v=15" title=":023:" class="emoji emoji-custom" alt=":023:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p><img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3a30b8d856b321b56a083b43a1d89624be195466.gif?v=15" title=":024:" class="emoji emoji-custom only-emoji" alt=":024:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>Did you quote me by accident here?  Not understanding your response?</p> 
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<p>Not understanding your response?</p>
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<p>I was merely quoting you (rather than responding to you).</p>
<p>I was just taking the position that I didn’t need to reiterate a point that you had already made in response to the topic before I made my first post.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/cochonours/48/13516_2.png" class="avatar"> Cochonours:</div>
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<p>Actually I hope that reasonML and the hype people @ facebook will make the tooling that the Ocaml community has always lacked. They have the money and know that stuff like this matter for a wider adoption.</p>
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<p>They’ve been pushing the Dune build system and getting it into OCaml ‘itself’ hard.  It’s definitely worth using.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/should-i-choose-elixir-for-web-apps/19596/44">Post #43</a>
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