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<p>And the performance and benchmark is important as well. Please don’t judge other on your personal opinion.</p>
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<p>I’m C# programmer by profession, I’ve been for about 15 years. We have one Chinese worker in our company who is NodeJS enthusiastic. I told him that <a href="http://ASP.NET" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">ASP.NET</a> Core is lot faster than NodeJS. After couple days he told me that he did benchmarks that proves NodeJS is fast as <a href="http://ASP.NET" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">ASP.NET</a> Core. Then we together looked at his code. Both platforms where doing same MSSQL database queries. So both “benchmarks” where actually database bound and where actually testing database performance. This just one example, but at least in our company’s large web app we don’t do almost any highly CPU bound work. Most of the time our app is database bound or bound to some other IO.</p>
<p>I think you want some magic language that can do everything and maybe Elixir is not for you then. There is only one language that I know of that can do almost everything except kernel programming and that’s C#. You can do high performance web apps (soon C# in browser with Blazor and similar to Phoenix LiveView Razor Components), desktop apps, games (lot of released games are done with C#, Unity &amp; Monogame), console apps, machine learning, embedded IoT and probably lot of other stuff. So if you want one language to rule them all I suggest C#.</p>
<p>But I think stable low latency even under heavy load, scalability, fault tolerance, immutability and other awesome things that Elixir/BEAM provides are much more important at least for web apps than language with high raw performance. You can’t example use horizontal scaling to make latency better.</p> 
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								<p>I love Elixir and have been playing around with it for sometime now. I have one decent size project running for a global non-profit organization running in Elixir and another one in beta testing.</p>
<p>With this kind of experience and years of RoR (worked as Solutions Architect, dev for multiple Startups and services companies), I am finding it extremely hard to find remote work or part-time job in UK in Elixir. Most of the Elixir openings in the market come with the label “Sr. Dev” or for people who have already done it. I am willing to start as Junior Developer, prove myself and then progress since I am keen to work with Elixir but still managing projects and teams in RoR for my living.</p>
<p>I have joined a company in UK recently where we are working on running industry relevant intensive coding courses for students in UK universities. I would love to have these courses being run in Elixir but just because I am not confident that these students will be able to find jobs as junior developers, I have decided to stick with RoR for the time being.</p> 
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								<p>I have a similar experience in the Netherlands. I learned elixir during a bit more than one year, but I cannot find freelancejobs. Not many companies use elixir, some require ruby experience, some a love of TDD, some are small startups with a small budget. I love the language, but next time I’m going to learn something new it will probably be react.</p> 
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								<p>I don’t want to respond to all the messages above, since it’s far from subject.</p>
<p>But I really want the people here to be objective. Who said the Elixir is perfect? Did I say so? No. Some just overstated my opinion.</p>
<p>Why r u so offensive? Is the Elixir a religion? Really? Why?</p>
<p>I told that “benchmark not proven.” → Isn’t this a weakness of Elixir? Proper approach would be like <a class="mention" href="/u/astonj" rel="nofollow">@AstonJ</a> did. Professionals prove it by the number, not the belief.</p>
<p>The real problem I felt so far in Elixir is, conservative and lot of insists, closed, exclusive to other.</p>
<p>I wanted to debate for better Elixir, but you guys make the thread to argue. For what? Is here a place to tackle and battle? I don’t like that style. It’s not fun nor productive.</p> 
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								<p>I’m sorry you felt that way that wasn’t my intention at all. But maybe there is some sort of language barrier here, because I’m not native English speaker either. I’m new to this platform and started learning Elixir just while ago so I’m sure how it could be my “religion” when I just started using it? I just tried telling you the good things I see in this platform compared to others without any bias.</p>
<p>It’s my many years experiences with benchmarks between web platforms (that have nothing to do with Elixir/BEAM) is that most of the time performance bottleneck might be somewhere else than in that web platform. Any platform that has good concurrency (asynchronous) model is very viable for web apps and all those benchmarks are more or less pointless. Lot of things about platform are more important than a good benchmark score. Most important things are, is it productive, is it maintainable (this is a big one), does it have everything that your apps needs and do you like working with it (developer happiness).</p>
<p>If you haven’t read this yet <a href="https://blog.discordapp.com/scaling-elixir-f9b8e1e7c29b" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Discord Blog</a> you should because it’s not a benchmark but a real use case. If something like Discord’s Elixir/BEAM over 5000000 (yes 5 million) concurrent (active, connected to the service simultaneously) users or WhatsApp (Erlang/BEAM) huge amount of users isn’t benchmark enough or “not proven” like you said to make you believe in platform, I’m not sure if any benchmark ever will.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mkunikow/48/235_2.png" class="avatar"> mkunikow:</div>
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<p>you can get this in different way like putting this on K8s or in AWS lamda …</p>
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<p>Part of me wonders whether <a href="https://youtu.be/6U7cLUygMeI?t=2265" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Dave Thomas targetting a stack of 5 Raspberry Pi’s</a> for his experiments was partially motivated by an assumption that similarly constrained environments would not easily tolerate the overhead of k8s/docker (<a href="https://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowToBuildAKubernetesClusterWithARMRaspberryPiThenRunNETCoreOnOpenFaas.aspx" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">I know it’s possible</a> but that doesn’t mean it’s <em>reasonable</em>).</p>
<p>Then there are IoT environments with constrained power and/or connectivity (e.g. <a href="https://youtu.be/ZW9fds3HAWU" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Visualizing Home Automation with GRiSP</a>).</p>
<p>Aside: Just discovered there is a <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peerstritzinger/grisp-2" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">GRiSP 2 Kickstarter</a>.</p> 
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<p>Why r u so offensive? Is the Elixir a religion? Really? Why?</p>
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<p>You made generalized claims, you got called out on them, and now you make other generalized claims.</p>
<p>Don’t get surprised if you generalize people and they react defensively.</p>
<p>Let’s get back on topic.</p> 
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								<p>I’m sorry too. I’m not the English speaker either. I’ve been enjoying Elixir 1.5 years, and Elixir is quite happy to code. Reason we’re investing time and effort here is simple; to make the Elixir better.</p>
<p>Concurrency is of course very important, that’s why I moved from RoR. When deploying on RoR, a GIL(Global interpreter Lock) was just a bottleneck and far from recent environment; as well as other problems too - improper websocket, abandoned gems, so on.</p>
<p>For Python, I think it’s a general purpose easy and fun lang; like a VB or GAS. Fitted to start programming.</p>
<p>Elixir is a language kinda specific purpose. That’s why I think it’s a good fit to Cloud computing OS. One can quickly advantage PaaS like features. Process, GenStage, Stream are underrated. Some other interesting features - Immutability, Pattern matching, Functional - are useful too.</p>
<p>Here is on a tiny example. Yesterday I posted a feature which manages API version simply by using pattern matching - <a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/elixir-lang-core/IvdU6xhOMoc" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Redirecting to Google Groups</a></p>
<p>Is Kotlin good? Well, I can’t agree. Is Android Studio IDE great? Mmm… It’s great but sooo heavy and crashes sometimes; actually it’s Gradle what shines. (But I think a smarter IDE tool is essential to Elixir, when going to the big world.) Stone age vs. Iron age situation.</p>
<p>Elixir has a great potential for some specific use cases, mainly a connectivity is intense. That’s why I don’t move away the Elixir.</p>
<p>But Elixir language is too unkind to the developer(not about the community.). Tasting an Elixir isn’t easy than other.</p>
<p>For Benchmark example you mentioned, you’re right. Benchmark is useful only when it’s testing properly. DB layer shouldn’t be included, since there’re so many things that affect the result out of language/framework itself.</p> 
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<p>With this kind of experience and years of RoR (worked as Solutions Architect, dev for multiple Startups and services companies)…</p>
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<p>I’d call you a senior developer; make sure you understand phoenix &amp; OTP, maybe a bit of review, then stop thinking of yourself as a junior…</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/have-you-moved-away-from-elixir-if-so-why/20302/161">Post #160</a>
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                  woeye
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
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<p>Part of me wonders whether <a href="https://youtu.be/6U7cLUygMeI?t=2265" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Dave Thomas targetting a stack of 5 Raspberry Pi’s </a> for his experiments was partially motivated by an assumption that similarly constrained environments would not easily tolerate the overhead of k8s/docker (<a href="https://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowToBuildAKubernetesClusterWithARMRaspberryPiThenRunNETCoreOnOpenFaas.aspx" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">I know it’s possible </a> but that doesn’t mean it’s <em>reasonable</em> ).</p>
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<p>I haven’t looked at it myself, but this one does sound interesting: <a href="https://github.com/rancher/k3s" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">GitHub - k3s-io/k3s: Lightweight Kubernetes · GitHub</a>. It aims to be a “lightweight” kubernetes distribution.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/have-you-moved-away-from-elixir-if-so-why/20302/162">Post #161</a>
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