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								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="peerreynders" data-post="11" data-topic="2386">
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
<blockquote>
<p><img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/blush.png?v=15" title=":blush:" class="emoji" alt=":blush:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> not very helpful, I know.</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>I <strong>knew</strong> that was going to pop up!  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/laughing.png?v=15" title=":laughing:" class="emoji" alt=":laughing:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>At the very least:</p>
<ol>
<li>Bower needs to die!  Like now.  It is not only wasted but it is entirely harmful by splitting the ecosystem across two nearly identical package managers since NPM hit 3.0.  It has fewer packages, most things are only on npm, very few things are only on bower (hence why I need both, GAH!), and there is no point to it since NPM hit 3.0</li>
<li>webpack/gulp/brunch need to merge, they all do the same thing, quit copying each other!</li>
</ol> 
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								<p>I’m not actually sure how serious I am but here it goes:</p>
<ul>
<li>Identify the most annoying webpack/gulp/grunt dependencies you know of</li>
<li>Start a topic listing these “todo” items as ports to Brunch.</li>
<li>Whenever somebody proclaims they want to learn JavaScript/Phoenix point them to the topic for their “JavaScript” projects that they can also put on Github as part of their portfolio.</li>
</ul>
<p>You get the drift … no, I don’t think it will work but you never know.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/peerreynders/48/5826_2.png" class="avatar"> peerreynders:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Start a topic listing these “todo” items as ports to Brunch.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>As much as I would love to, Brunch has some <strong>major</strong> design faults that I’ve run across having made 3 brunch plugins for phoenix.  Let me list just a few that come immediately to mind:</p>
<ul>
<li>There is no way to cancel a file output, say you have a pass that holds metadata or whatever (or something like elm that transpiles to js but outputs its own files), you cannot tell brunch to just ‘not output this js model’, no instead you get your output file polluted with tons of crap like this (copy-pasted):</li>
</ul>
<pre data-code-wrap="javscript"><code class="lang-javscript">;require.register("web/elm/JSPhoenix.elm", function(exports, require, module) {

});
</code></pre>
<ul>
<li>No way to output multiple files in a pass, say you have an input file that generates both a js file and a template, you can either return to Brunch the JS file, or you can return it the template, you have to write the other file to disk manually, where brunch will then later notice it and then parse it in as normal.</li>
<li>There is no way to have it go over a single file multiple times for different passes, say so that you can extract javascript in one and a template in another.</li>
<li>There is no way to redirect it to pull a file from an external compiler, instead you have to run the external compiler, have it output to a temp directory somewhere, wait for it to finish (and on windows wait for the file to sync to disc, do it too soon and you crash!), then read it back and give it back to brunch.</li>
<li>There is no way to handle multiple files in a single pass, say for something that handles all files of a given type (say, Elm), so the compiler gets called for every-single-file even though the compiler invocation compiles all files, so you end up calling the compiler for all files, which compiles everything n*n times, so you instead have to do your own synchronization to be careful to only call it once (which it does), however if a file updates during that time and it tells you about it while another compiling is already happening then you miss it and have to wait for the compile to finish just to save your file again so brunch calls it again.</li>
</ul>
<p>And there are others upon others.  It is a design fault in brunch.  Honestly Phoenix needs to change to one of the others, sadly I’ve no clue which would really be best…  Gulp seems to be the one most capable of working with everything so maybe it, but I’m unsure…</p> 
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								<p>Oooo, node is currently at over 1 gig of ram now!  Not a clue what happened.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/laughing.png?v=15" title=":laughing:" class="emoji" alt=":laughing:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>Ember uses Broccoli, not sure if it’s good or not. Laravel (PHP) uses Gulp, so maybe someone can tell us their experience with that.</p> 
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<blockquote>
<p>Laravel (PHP) uses Gulp, so maybe someone can tell us their experience with that.</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>gulp is… okay. It’s the successor of grunt in many ways, my last prolonged exposure to it is 1.5 years ago - and basically the same feeling I get with webpack: people I respect very much spent way too much time (imo) fiddling with it to make it work in a not super special context (CoffeeScript, React, Sass, autoprefixer) but in the end it all worked fine <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>I’d be curious of everyones experiences with all the various things.  The popular ones are (in no specific order):</p>
<ul>
<li>Gulp</li>
<li>Grunt</li>
<li>Webpack</li>
<li>JSPM</li>
</ul>
<p>And a few other minor ones that I barely hear about.  I’m especially curious in:</p>
<ol>
<li>Which are capable of watching files and reloading dynamically</li>
<li>Which are capable of processing arbitrary files via javascript and/or binary executables?</li>
<li>Which are fully asynchronous and which are serialized, and if asynchronous how they handle things that need to be serialized.</li>
<li>Overall raw speed.</li>
<li>Etc…</li>
</ol>
<p>I’m curious because honestly Brunch is so restricted (and unused out in the ‘wild’) that I’m thinking it should be replaced as the default handler in Phoenix, or at least for an alternate to be supplied via a new template.</p> 
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									<span>Creator of Elixir</span>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I’m curious because honestly Brunch is so restricted (and unused out in the ‘wild’) that I’m thinking it should be replaced as the default handler in Phoenix, or at least for an alternate to be supplied via a new template.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>We are not committed to brunch. The reason we chose brunch is because it is the tool that required the least amount of configuration and fiddling for someone who wants to write just enough javascript to complement their server side work.</p>
<p>Because, let’s be honest, if we are targeting advanced JS users, there is no single choice that will make the majority of them happy.</p>
<p>I believe both Chris and I are open to change Phoenix to something given it is stable, we can interact with it through a single configuration file (at least initially), it is fast and it supports fs watching.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/josevalim/48/1787_2.png" class="avatar"> josevalim:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I believe both Chris and I are open to change Phoenix to something given it is stable, we can interact with it through a single configuration file (at least initially), it is fast and it supports fs watching.</p>
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<p>That is great to hear! <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>webpack hit 2.0 and it seems the most popular choice, although that might be my bubble. Personally I think that this is nothing that NEEDS to change much less NOW - I think this might be something worth revisiting in ~a year and see what’s going on in JS land then and if it’s stable. Maybe with a Phoenix 2.0 some day <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>I mostly use webpack in other projects so rip brunch out when playing around with Phoenix.</p>
<p>It might sound strange, but I feel there is less magic involved in webpack, though that’s admittedly because I’ve taken the time to learn webpack and not so much brunch.</p>
<p>A very simple webpack config for phoenix is easy to do. Regardless, one thing I’d love to see is the removal of the bootstrap blob in <code>phoenix.css</code> and have it default to being an npm dependency that is required somewhere.</p> 
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