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                  josevalim
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									<span>Creator of Elixir</span>
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								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="shanesveller" data-post="21" data-topic="34038">
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/shanesveller/48/7962_2.png" class="avatar"> shanesveller:</div>
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<p>I get a lot of mileage out of <a href="https://hexdocs.pm/distillery/extensibility/custom_commands.html" rel="nofollow">custom subcommands</a> over <code>eval</code> and <code>rpc</code> calls, to reduce cognitive overhead during operational or triage tasks. This is also a place where documentation and runbooks could supplement about as well.</p>
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<p>That’s something we left out on purpose because it adds a lot of complexity and many people reported Distillery scripts complexity as one of its biggest downsides. I encourage to build regular scripts on top of the main script, which is more Unix-like.</p>
<p>Similar for boot scripts. If you do need to hook into a particular command, then you can use the env.sh file, but I would avoid these particular papercuts. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>If there is something that is hard to achieve with those approaches, please let us know, and we can see how to tackle the individual problems. I would prefer to move the discussion from “we don’t have this” to “we can’t do this”.</p>
<p>Plugins are done with custom steps. That’s something we had since day one because they are required for projects like Nerves. All of those are documented and used by the community, maybe what is lacking is actual guides to help people migrate from Distillery.</p> 
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		          <img alt="LostKobrakai" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/LostKobrakai/120/3072_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/shanesveller/48/7962_2.png" class="avatar"> shanesveller:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I get a lot of mileage out of <a href="https://hexdocs.pm/distillery/extensibility/custom_commands.html" rel="nofollow">custom subcommands</a> over <code>eval</code> and <code>rpc</code> calls, to reduce cognitive overhead during operational or triage tasks. This is also a place where documentation and runbooks could supplement about as well.</p>
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<p>I use this for a project since switching to ˋmix releaseˋ from distillery:</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/LostKobrakai/doist" class="onebox" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow">https://github.com/LostKobrakai/doist</a></p>
<p>But to be fair for new projects I use eval as in my case CI is the only place to call those commands, so the benefit is minor.</p> 
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                  josevalim
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									<span>Creator of Elixir</span>
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<p>with ML being probably the weakest and webdev having some ergonomic concerns in its current form.</p>
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<p>I honestly don’t see Rust displacing any of the major players on web dev. It is not about framework capability but rather the level you want to sit at when writing business/domain logic. To be clear, it is definitely doable, but far from first choice.</p>
<p>Similar thoughts apply for distributed systems. Doable from pretty much everywhere but if your goal is to start something, Erlang removes many decisions from the process and it has proven over and over again its scalability and operability.</p>
<p>This is not a Rust critique, just trying to drive home the point that languages won’t check all of those boxes. Rust is probably yet to pass the peak of inflated expectations until it settles into certain domains.</p>
<p>Other than that, I definitely hope Rust succeeds in domains such as ML because its interoperability story means that it will make ML directly available to many other communities.</p> 
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								<p>Are C, Java, Node or Rust ecossystem “productive and fun” to code as Elixir?</p>
<p>IMO this is one of the greatest advantages of Elixir and maybe we are missing here. I never found before a tech stack that brings me Joy of development and nice performance (in its niche) like Elixir.</p>
<p>Elixir syntax and the language itself is a very nice built.</p>
<p>Do you like “<span class="chcklst-box fa fa-square-o"></span> === <span class="chcklst-box fa fa-square-o"></span>” to be evaluated as “false” like node? Or to write “public system main args out print wharever pom.xml” like Java? Or to don’t have a REPL/interative shell like Rust? Or to work with pointers while you are building a simple CRUD web app in C?</p>
<p>I really respect all of those. But for Web Apps or Distributed Systems i found nothing “”“better”“” than Elixir.</p>
<p>IMO expressiveness are very very very important thing while modeling business rules. And “it’s a thing” work with a language that not few like you are hiting your head in your keyboard writing a code thats seems like visual noise. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/rofl.png?v=15" title=":rofl:" class="emoji" alt=":rofl:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>Sorry for my bad english.</p> 
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								<p>I work with ML professionals, and my opinion is that are very smart people, and like many very smart people they don’t want to put up with a lot of things on the way to getting what they really want to do.  Even if Rust manages to abstract a lot of the most challenging parts into macros, they’re still relatively uncomposable… In this sense:  Fighting the borrow checker just to parse a poorly structured CSV that came out of a shell script dropped from an ETL pipeline, into a high performance pipeline of matrix-matrix multiplication on a GPU is, I believe, not something they are going to want to do in general.</p> 
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								<p>Maybe a “best practices” guidelines for eval and rpc might be useful.  One of my eval statements in my shell script looks like this, which I think is maybe evocative of some of the struggles:</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">#/bin/sh
my_app/bin/my_app eval "import IP; Application.ensure_all_started(:my_app); :some_atom1; :some_atom2; MyApp.run_file('~/configuration.toml', ~i/$1/);" 
</code></pre>
<ul>
<li>I’m not sure there’s guidance about sometimes needing to do <code>Application.ensure_all_started/1</code> in an <code>eval</code> statement; I only knew immediately to put that in from lots of experience, and this may be frustrating for beginners.</li>
<li>the <code>:some_atoms</code> are there because i have been maybe overly cautious about String.to_existing_atom.</li>
<li>the first parameter to <code>run_file/2</code> is a charlist to avoid having to escape double quotes, and is a bit of a hack because I happened to remember <code>run_file</code> just calls File.read!, which admits charlists.</li>
<li>the second parameter uses this sigil_i that I happened to remember I’d written because that lets me avoid a quotation mark in <code>IP.from_string!/1</code>.  If I had a function that took a String, I would probably want to use <code>~s//</code> or something, but guidance on that as a best practice would be nice.</li>
</ul>
<p>It might also be nice to be able to package shell/batch scripts into the release relatively easily in the Release pipeline (like how we have <code>:assemble</code> and <code>:tar</code> directives)  I don’t do this currently (and just copy/paste from my source directory into vi).</p>
<p>That said, I love releases.  I did a release on a personal project - persistent websocket datascraping into Sqlite last night directly onto an free-tier aws.  Smooth as a baby.</p> 
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								<p>5 posts were merged into an existing topic: <a href="/t/julia-elixir/34064/2" rel="nofollow">Julia + elixir</a></p> 
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								<p>I think the main appeal towards Rust for Elixir devs is the static typing (and one really useful product of it: exhaustive pattern matching). <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>I claim that the experience of making a web app in Rust is miles behind Phoenix.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/ityonemo/48/11341_2.png" class="avatar"> ityonemo:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>That said, I love releases. I did a release on a personal project - persistent websocket datascraping into Sqlite last night directly onto an free-tier aws. Smooth as a baby.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Write a guide in a blog post, please! <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/pleading_face.png?v=15" title=":pleading_face:" class="emoji" alt=":pleading_face:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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		          <img alt="konstantine" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/konstantine/120/13605_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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                  konstantine
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/henriquefernandez/48/12814_2.png" class="avatar"> henriquefernandez:</div>
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<p>IMO expressiveness are very very very important thing while modeling business rules. And “it’s a thing” work with a language that not few like you are hiting your head in your keyboard writing a code thats seems like visual noise. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/rofl.png?v=15" title=":rofl:" class="emoji" alt=":rofl:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>That. The practicality and aesthetics of Elixir code.</p> 
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