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								<p>As far as i can see, it has to be a leader, who starts to do the first steps and takes all burden, at least at the beginnings. But it’s a lot of work. After that, “volunteers” may be join to help. I can’t see other successful paths without payments, as Sebb mentioned. I don’t think that it’s possible to do something like RfG from scratch with forum(or other public platforms) collective effort. Somebody with strong hand must decide where project should go.<br>
Forum can give many ideas though <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>And personally, I would be happy to join it as one of “volunteers”</p> 
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		          <img alt="pragdave" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/pragdave/120/1042_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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									<span>Author of Programming Elixir</span>
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								<p>I have to start by saying that I applaud those who want to help others. The world needs more of y’all.</p>
<p>But, at the same time, I don’t think that “«mylanguage» For Good” is a useful vehicle for that.</p>
<p>First, there’s the concept of a charitable organization organized around a tool. It sounds a bit like Habitat For Humanity only allowing people who use hammers to build houses, or Médecins Sans Frontières only working with neurosurgeons. When giving is tied to conditions, it both limits its scope and it leads to waste.</p>
<p>Second, I feel that the idea as a whole is inefficient. As you all have been discussing, there’d need to be a core of full time people. You talk about these being techies, but you’d also need someone to do outreach, and access to both a lawyer and an accountant. Suddenly you’re spending more time administering than coding. (I’ve seen this happen with a couple of charities I’ve been involved with.)</p>
<p>Third, where’s the benefit to you? You already spend your days working with Elixir developers. If you decide to give up some of your time for charitable purposes, and my hat is off to those who do, wouldn’t you want to work alongside different kinds of people? You’d bring a new perspective to them, and them to you.</p>
<p>If you want to volunteer your time, you are a hero. But you don’t need to form a brand new silo in which to do it. Reach out to others who already have organizations, and offer your skills. I suspect most charities could benefit from some help. Offer them programming, or UI design, or devops, if you want. Or offer them whatever else you have to give. Make a difference. But do it for them, and on their terms, not yours.</p>
<p>(Sorry)</p>
<p>Dave</p> 
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								<p>I was about to drop in a link to your work!</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/pragdave/48/1042_2.png" class="avatar"> pragdave:</div>
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<p>When giving is tied to conditions, it both limits its scope and it leads to waste.</p>
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<p>Elixir/BEAM has very broad scope, don’t see a problem here. Maybe the community is not big enough to produce enough volunteers.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/pragdave/48/1042_2.png" class="avatar"> pragdave:</div>
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<p>Second, I feel that the idea as a whole is inefficient… Suddenly you’re spending more time administering than coding.</p>
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<p>I agree. Would be interesting to know how the Ruby team handles this.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/pragdave/48/1042_2.png" class="avatar"> pragdave:</div>
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<p>Third, where’s the benefit to you?</p>
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<p>The thing is not completely selfless. It’s also marketing for Elixir.</p> 
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								<p>Adding a bit on the points that <a class="mention" href="/u/pragdave" rel="nofollow">@pragdave</a>  makes, and taking off from the point by <a class="mention" href="/u/tejpochiraju" rel="nofollow">@tejpochiraju</a>, especially in the social sector context:</p>
<ul>
<li>Tech is not the solution, tech can potentially be an enabler</li>
<li>Solve their core problems and scratch their itch not yours</li>
<li>Do it in a way that will outlive your engagement with them (and this will happen)</li>
</ul>
<p>We’ve attempted to address and answer some of these questions with <a href="https://chintugudiya.org/tech4dev/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Project Tech4Dev</a>, and <a href="https://glific.org/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Glific</a> is one such example. We are still learning and improving over time, but it will always be a work in progress</p> 
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								<p>I used to run and recently sold a <a href="https://www.contentready.co/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">for-profit org</a> focused entirely on tech solutions for social impact. So, bias is potentially unavoidable. With that caveat…</p>
<p>My learnings were that you have to distinguish between:</p>
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<li>organisations where tech can help improve <strong>operational efficiencies</strong>, and</li>
<li>organisations that are <strong>tech/product-centric</strong> where operations support adoption of that product.</li>
</ul>
<p>The first type of organisations would benefit from, e.g. migrating to <a href="https://erpnext.com/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">ERPNext</a> or <a href="https://civicrm.org/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">CiviCRM</a> from spreadsheets. As a tech community, we could do worse than build products for common use cases and help the organisations adopt these and adapt their operations. I would put Glific in this grouping too. Failures (including some of ours) arise from trying to build something too specific to a single organisation’s use case instead of helping them adopt a slightly more generic tool.</p>
<p>The second set of organisations want custom applications which naturally themselves to service contracts. However, more often than not these organisations don’t have strong product owners and very few have any previous experience releasing products. Everything is a project in the impact world - from funding to these developments. So you have a bunch of stakeholders applying myopic project vision to what should be an iterative product development in, usually, greenfield areas.</p>
<p>As you can probably tell, I would recommend staying away from the latter until that custom application becomes a common enough use case that it can be productised and no one organisation owns it.</p> 
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								<p>+1 on pretty much everything that tej mentioned <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>I am interested in this idea and I’d like to help out if possible, and I am glad <a class="mention" href="/u/professorsnapper" rel="nofollow">@professorsnapper</a> brought it up.  It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a while, and this thread even inspired me to put some of my thoughts in writing in an <a href="https://fireproofsocks.medium.com/developing-for-good-743160ccdf2d" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">article</a>. <strong>TL;DR:</strong> the ideas of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Effective Altruism</a> might be relevant here for helping gage the most effective use of time/efforts/donations, so I want to mention it here for consideration.</p> 
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									<span>Author of Building Table Views with Phoenix LiveView</span>
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								<p>I’d be more than happy to contribute and help organise this org as well. How do you propose we get together for a first meeting? Maybe we can organise ourselves in a new channel in the Elixir Slack?</p> 
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                  professorsnapper
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								<p>I think a Slack channel is a good idea - (revealing one aspect of my ignorance here) I’ve been meaning to give Slack a go for years, but hadn’t found a project until now that made it compelling enough to do so…</p>
<p>Picking up on the title of <a class="mention" href="/u/fireproofsocks" rel="nofollow">@fireproofsocks</a>’ article, which echoed <a class="mention" href="/u/pragdave" rel="nofollow">@pragdave</a>’s comment to me in a side conversation, I’m inclined to agree that this would be better framed as “Developers for Good” or “Developing for Good”, which places the emphasis on the people or the activity, rather than the particular language used. I’ll assume that Dave is OK with me quoting his additional comment on that topic here:</p>
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<p>But it wouldn’t be an organization of developers. I’d see it as an exchange, where charities could register their needs, and developers could register their talents, and DfG could marry them up.</p>
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<p>So, perhaps the DfG dating service, then? <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>Oh, and just quietly, I don’t think it’ll be hard finding worthy real-world projects for devs to sink their teeth into. I’ve got half-a-dozen semi-formed project ideas rattling around in my head right now, as I’m sure is the case for a number of folks on this thread…</p>
<p>As an aside, I’ve just ordered myself a hardback copy of the MacAskill’s “Doing Good Better” book, as Everett recommended in the article above. Given current circumstances, it might take some weeks to get here on camel back to Central Australia… maybe this might be the beginnings of another book club on this forum? <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>Also, Randall Thomas’ talk at Lone Star Elixir 2020 (“<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfh3WD09ZE" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Yeah, but should we?</a>”) seems to be quite relevant to the spirit of this thread…</p>
<p>So, Slack then?</p> 
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