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								<p>Well it’s pretty safe to assume someone learning the language is going to be learning it in order to apply it somewhere, which means its pretty safe to assume they are going to be diving in to the framework. I’ve said before learning the basic syntax in any language is easy, learning practical application is where it gets tricky because you need to know the system it exists within as well as the language.</p>
<p>Also the hexdocs are like a car manual, they may be written very well from a technical standpoint but expecting someone to read through them to understand how a car works vs someone teaching them how a car works are completely different things. Some people are good at reading manuals, but most people learn from doing or being shown things.</p>
<p>Also, I’d rather have 100 examples and 80 of them be wrong than no examples at all as at least it’s something to work from if I am totally lost.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-elixir-more-understandable-and-easy-to-learn-than-python/53030/32">Post #31</a>
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								<p>The <a class="mention" href="/u/ityonemo" rel="nofollow">@ityonemo</a> seems like a peculiar example because</p>
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<p>the list manipulating methods in Python are not immediately intuitive IMHO. Also, I think it is more pythonic to default to None, instead of <span class="chcklst-box fa fa-square-o"></span> ?</p>
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<p>the term “easier” implies some kind of comparison and there’s no corresponding snippet in Elixir.</p>
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<p>As someone familiar with Python, but new to Elixir, I would like to see the comparison.</p> 
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								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="controlpl4n3" data-post="33" data-topic="53030">
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/controlpl4n3/48/28635_2.png" class="avatar"> controlpl4n3:</div>
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<p>the term “easier” implies some kind of comparison and there’s no corresponding snippet in Elixir.</p>
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<p>Let’s compare to an easier to follow example. It’s the same crazyness. Bakground: Python initializes default arguments when the module is loaded, not when the function is run. With mutable default arguments this is the consequence:</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">&gt;&gt;&gt; def f(l=[]):
...     l.append('foo')
...     return(l)
... 
&gt;&gt;&gt; f()
['foo']
&gt;&gt;&gt; f()
['foo', 'foo']
</code></pre>
<p>Elixir’s datastructures are immutable, so this is what happens:</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">defmodule Test do
  def f(l \\ []) do
    l ++ ["foo"]
  end
end

Test.f() |&gt; dbg
Test.f() |&gt; dbg
</code></pre>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">Test.f() #=&gt; ["foo"]
Test.f() #=&gt; ["foo"]
</code></pre>
<p>As expected. No surprises. So Elixir can’t mutate, which makes some things harder, but in the end the code is easier to understand and to maintain.</p> 
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								<p>Now that is pretty disgusting.</p>
<p>It is interesting that python was designed with simplicity in mind: an interpreter to avoid compiled languages complexity at the cost of performance, simple but not scalable syntax for new people that have never developed, batteries included for basic libraries that someone might need.</p>
<p>Somewhere along the way it lost it’s way, it would be nice to hear the story from someone who knows what truly happened.</p> 
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								<p>In Python, mutable default arguments are possible, but discouraged.</p> 
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								<p>In my experience: hard yes. I’ve been doing Python for two months and appreciated it a lot for how clean and simple it looks and feels compared to other languages. But learning Elixir was a lot more easy and fast (I switched over two weeks ago), and I immediately started writing much better code with much less hassle.<br>
I think just everything about Elixir is an order of magnitude or two bettern than Python, except for the lack of libraries (specifically, I couldn’t find a plotting library that would be as customizable as Plotly, maybe VegaLite, haven’t looked into it that much yet tbh).</p> 
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								<p>All due respect <a class="mention" href="/u/ann" rel="nofollow">@Ann</a> you’re asking for a definite answer to a broad and vague question.  And you’re asking whether you should learn python or elixir on an elixir forum.  I think you should learn elixir but I’m (admittedly) sort of prejudiced.</p> 
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