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								<p>I’m clearly not great at expressing myself (I already knew this).  When I said “clearly this was a screening failure” I was trying to signal that this was extreme case (2 years later, I’m still reveling in the relief that that interview is over).  I’m otherwise also in the same boat as you, but was trying to shed some light on some positive experiences with coding exercises I’ve had, although it was a pretty special company I was at and it doesn’t match the experience of most of the interviews I’ve done recently.  I’m feeling the urge to start venting about these interviews so I’m going to stop.</p>
<p>…but for a taste:</p>
<p>I was told the “next steps” was going to a pairing exercise.  This “pairing exercise” ended up being a timed (3 hour) <em>solo</em> exercise on zoom, <em>being recorded</em>, having to talk aloud to myself through what I was doing.  I’m still kicking myself for agreeing to do that as… well, I mean, we’re all very lucky with the money we can make in this industry but that did not feel good at all.  To top it off, when they rejected me they said they could “give me feedback, but not necessarily feedback, just talk through the exercise” and I said ok and I never heard from them again.</p> 
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								<p>Probably none. The ideal situation is when you can arrange a two week trial period before hiring that person, to test the skills in practice. Could be shorter too, maybe 3 days would be enough, and start working on real stuff.</p>
<p>Coding interview skills are entirely different skill than writing real software.</p> 
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								<blockquote>
<p>we’re all very lucky with the money we can make in this industry</p>
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<p>I would be happy to work with less money, but in a company where people really care about their product and people they hire, and it seems to me the market will be saturated at some point and the salaries will start to drop radically for junior-middle levels.</p>
<p>A funny story, I was searching for a elixir job and being unable to find any, I thought that maybe a better strategy was to come with a proposition of being paid much less for let’s say a few months to prove my skills and then discuss new terms, I couldn’t be more wrong, recruiters hearing this would just not take me seriously and most of the times either decline after application or not answering at all :).</p> 
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								<p>Surprisingly many people who call themselves developers dont know what they are doing.<br>
Some kind of coding exercise or code sample is needed, but it shouldn’t take more than maybe 2 evenings to get it done.<br>
One example I got is to write a small program with an ui to score a bowling game, which I think was kinda fun.<br>
For elixir I would maybe pick something that shows that the candidate knows how processes and supervision trees work. Maybe build a networked bowling scoring server, which could be called from telnet <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/sweat_smile.png?v=15" title=":sweat_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":sweat_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>If there are many who say they are developers but cannot code then could you argue that coding exercises are not effective in the first place?</p>
<p>If coding exercises were effective, then wouldn’t they act as a hedge against the very thing that corporations are hoping to avoid(developers who can’t actually code)?</p>
<p>It’s kind of a silly argument I know but let me put it this way: if every developer just refused to do a coding exercise, would the software industry collapse? I don’t think it would. I believe the job and the developer would actually find each other more quickly because this artificial ceremony has been done away with and people get hired and fired until they find the job they actually deserve.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/maz/48/6075_2.png" class="avatar"> maz:</div>
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<p>I believe the job and the developer would actually find each other more quickly because this artificial ceremony has been done away with and people get hired and fired until the find the job they actually deserve.</p>
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<p>While I do generally agree, this would likely be more churn on the employers ends. Yes coding exercises are not a perfect measurement of an applicants abilities. It neither prevents a bad pick nor is a great tool to highlight ones abilities (in a general manner). But overall I think from an employers perspective it’s a tool to lessen the risk of getting someone they don’t want. In a perfect world that risk would be well handled by employers, but I think we’re just not in such a world. Even in education, which deals with the issue of evaluating people so much more, there’s not many alternatives to tests when it comes to quickly doing assessments.</p> 
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<p>Some kind of coding exercise or code sample is needed, but it shouldn’t take more than maybe 2 evenings to get it done.</p>
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<p>Only if they are paid for would I spend two evenings writing code for a throw away project. For all you know, they have been giving the same assignment to 1000 people and will choose one of the 200 who passed at random.</p> 
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								<p>I was once at a company where we gave a simple coding exercise to a candidate with a Ph.D. in a computer-related field.  The candidate was unable to complete the exercise, so we ended up not hiring him.  I think it is important to screen for basic programming ability, even if the candidate seems qualified.</p> 
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<p>The ideal situation is when you can arrange a two week trial period before hiring that person, to test the skills in practice. Could be shorter too, maybe 3 days would be enough, and start working on real stuff.</p>
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<p>What if you are working full time for another company and can’t afford the risk of leaving your current company and being told you’re not a good fit at the new one after the trial period?</p> 
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								<p>Good lord, ya.  I recently had an interview for a Ruby job.  I did two different one hour meet-and-greet style 1:1 interviews with the CEO then the CTO.  I told both, several times, that while I have a lot of past experience in Rails, it’s been three years since I was working with it daily and I was quite rusty.  I also let them know that I had zero experience with Hotwire, which is what they were using.  They said I sounded like a good fit and got me to do a takehome.  I put in a few hours on the assignment, sent it in and I got a rejection.  I asked why and if they could give me feedback on my code and they said: “There were no glaring issues with your code, we just need someone who already knows Hotwire and can hit the ground running.”  So why the feck did they get me to do the takehome then??</p>
<p>In any event, I do think exercises can be good if they are short and especially if they are paired on.  I like stringcalc so much because it starts off stupidly simple and sets a relaxed tone.  I really don’t understand the point of asking people tough algorithm questions when your company sells baby clothes or whatever.</p> 
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