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								<p>My 2 cents on this discussion as a brazilian, is that some business logic and terms doesn’t exists on english. so how you would describe them? there’s no “boleto” mean in english, neither for “pix”, “carnê” and so many other terms that translating would lose the original meaning… so yes, sometimes i prefer to code in portuguese (comments, variables and database tables/columns).</p>
<p>also, if a local company only had brazilian workers that don’t know english, why to make the effort to translate everything to the “world language”</p>
<p>“but if a remote developer start to working on this company they would need to learn the mother language” yes that is literally what i need to do, as a brazilian remote freelancer who need to understand english for international companies…</p>
<p>now, if you’re building an open source library that indeed the target public is the “world”, it makes more sense to code in english</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/are-you-working-in-a-non-english-codebase/59714/32">Post #31</a>
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								<p>The whole thread is so rich and interesting. Reminds me of an inspirational keynote on PyCon 2007 by Robert ‘r0ml’ Lefkowitz.</p>
<p>Among many amazing ideas packed in the presentation, he brought up the point of “why do we have to program in English, why can’t we all use our preferred spoken languages like in other domains like web browsers, text editors, operating systems…”</p>
<p>Sometimes I toyed with that idea… seems plausible to do when working with low-syntax programming languages like those in the LISP family. But the reality and economics of software seem to be going in a different direction.</p>
<p>I have not found any “spoken-language agnostic” programming language, let alone find something viable long-term for production code. Can’t prove they don’t exist though <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/rhcarvalho/48/32243_2.png" class="avatar"> rhcarvalho:</div>
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<p>I have not found any “spoken-language agnostic” programming language</p>
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<p><code>J</code> or any other esoteric special-character-only language.</p>
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<p>seems plausible to do when working with low-syntax programming languages like those in the LISP family</p>
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<p>It is also possible to redefine names in languages with preprocessors like C.</p>
<p>But still, any dependency you’re using will most likely be written in English, what will make a mess of your code.</p>
<p>I really like some languages built on top of non-English natural languages, and I love esoteric languages like J or Brainfuck, but, as an old meme says “I am so tired of looking at the bad screen, can’t wait to go home to look at good screen”, or rephrased: there is programming we do for money, and there is programming we do for joy. Sometimes they intersect, but still all programming for money should be done in English, since it is a convenient default. (Though I know one exception: neat 1C language which is used for accounting in Russian-speaking countries)</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/41988e/48.png" class="avatar"> hst337:</div>
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<p><code>J</code> or any other esoteric special-character-only language.</p>
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<p>Oh, yeah, I’m aware of J, APL, etc. But those are not what I meant.</p>
<p>Take a code base in J, I took randomly <a href="https://github.com/jonghough/jlearn:" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://github.com/jonghough/jlearn:</a> it is full of English (function names, etc).</p>
<p>The comparison with a web browser is like this – “if you want to browser the web, do you need to know English? No.” You choose the language you want to use your web browser and off you go (and probably most people don’t even need to “choose”, it is somehow chosen for them based on their geographical location). The same browser can be used in multiple different languages.</p>
<p>The equivalent programming language environment would need to be automatically suitable to be “translated” into several distinct spoken languages… imagine a code base where you can choose if you want to code in English or German or Portuguese, without affecting what other programmers in the team can choose, and everyone gets to have a wonderful experience. Variables and functions and other constructs are available in multiple languages, perhaps automatically, perhaps with manual effort. I’m unaware of anything like that <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/upside_down_face.png?v=15" title=":upside_down_face:" class="emoji" alt=":upside_down_face:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>neat 1C language</p>
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<p>Thanks for sharing, that one is new to me! Funny enough, ChatGPT gave me an example code snippet in English… and I complained it was supposed to be in Russian and it translated everything… I have no idea how much hallucination that was!</p> 
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<p>imagine a code base where you can choose if you want to code in English or German or Portuguese, without affecting what other programmers in the team can choose</p>
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<p>If such tool existed and was something broadly used in the industry, it would basically mean that the OP’s task would not be about translating the code base from German into English by replacing the existing text, but, instead, translating the code base to a new language while preserving all existing text – German speakers can consult the German version, English speakers consume the English, and so on.</p>
<p>We do that with tools like <code>gettext</code> for web applications and other UI, but don’t do it for programming languages and code (even though IDEs support multiple spoken languages for their UI)!</p> 
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<p>If such tool existed and was something broadly used in the industry</p>
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<p>That’s a fun task to research in academia or by anybody who has a lot of free time and knowledge in automated translation. I would definitely make a student write a diploma about software engineering translation</p>
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<p>We do that with tools like <code>gettext</code> for web applications and other UI</p>
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<p>Tools like <code>gettext</code> require knowledge of every language you’re supporting</p> 
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								<p>This might come close: <a href="https://www.unison-lang.org" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://www.unison-lang.org</a></p>
<p><s>Not sure if this still applies but</s> basically when you write a <s>function</s> definition it gets hashed and stored. Should you choose to rename your <s>function</s> definition at a later stage (or even translate it) the rest of the codebase, or even other code that depends on your library, does not care because it uses the hash and not the name you have chosen for the <s>function</s> definition.</p>
<p>Edit: see <a href="https://www.unison-lang.org/learn/the-big-idea/" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">💡 The big idea · Unison programming language</a></p> 
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								<p>Adding complexity to already a very complex ecosystem is not the way to go IMO.</p> 
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								<p>While I generally agree, I would suggest you take a (closer) look at Unison. They have some interesting ideas and the whole hashing of definitions is done behind the scenes so you would not need to call a definition by its hash or something.</p>
<p>Another interesting idea is that your code base is essentially a database (SQLite). You do not have a folder with files in it but instead you have a code base server running which you can query. Once you found what you wanted to change or add you can instruct your code base to open a scratch pad where you would write all your code.</p>
<p>They have some very interesting ideas which are very different from what we have been doing so far and it might be useful to read and think about it at least.</p> 
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								<p>Reading this it made me realise that I’m in a slightly different environment. I’m from the Netherlands, a very small country in Western Europe. Since this <a href="https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">tiny country feeds the world</a> a lot of us speak English. English is important here because pretty much every business does cross boarder business.</p>
<p>In cities like Amsterdam it’s very likely that you won’t be able to order your coffee and broodje kaas in Dutch.</p>
<p>What I’m trying to say is that I understand better now why people would code in their native language. Like you said, Brazil is very big and there might be companies that only deal within the country.</p> 
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