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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>that PHP and much more faster than Groovy/Grails + Tomcat</p>
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<p>I guess you mean while developing? Otherwise this is just wrong.</p>
<p>See e.g.: <a href="https://www.infoq.com/news/2012/11/twitter-ruby-to-java" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Twitter’s Shift from Ruby to Java Helps it Survive US Election - InfoQ</a></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/nobbz/48/27235_2.png" class="avatar"> NobbZ:</div>
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<p>If in any of those forums you’d get a truth answer its here.</p>
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<p>You may get here an solid answer, but surely not only here. And actually your answer kind of contradicts it.</p> 
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		          <img alt="hubertlepicki" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/120/6822_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/nobbz/48/27235_2.png" class="avatar"> NobbZ:</div>
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<p>If in any of those forums you’d get a truth answer its here.<br>
[…]<br>
The Elixir community seems to be different.</p>
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<p>hehe, that’s precisely what I’m talking about ;). In fact I think everyone, including myself, have often irrational preferences and are always biased against/for some technologies. Take PHP, and “PHP kiddies”. Well, Facebook is doing well with PHP, the chances are you can actually build decent software with it now days.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/958977/48.png" class="avatar"> svsdehh:</div>
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<p>I guess you mean while developing? Otherwise this is just wrong.</p>
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<p>Yes, especially compilation - comparing to Elixir developing - using Java is really, really slow. One time when working with one designer in Elixir/Phoenix project he want lots of small “one-line fixes” - I can’t imagine doing this with Groovy/Grails + Tomcat, because this could take few hours instead of some minutes. In Elixir the only limitation while deploying is my network upload speed (uploading release archive to multiple nodes) and compilation is really fast enough for such situations.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/48/6822_2.png" class="avatar"> hubertlepicki:</div>
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<p>Well, Facebook is doing well with PHP, the chances are you can actually build decent software with it now days.</p>
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<p>Yes, but even Facebook felt compelled to create an “escape hatch” with <a href="http://hacklang.org/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Hack</a> - which doesn’t really seem to be catching on within the PHP community proper.<br>
(<a href="https://www.keycdn.com/blog/php-7-vs-hhvm/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">PHP 7 vs HHVM – Which One Should You Use?</a>)</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>Java - I don’t worked with Java so much, but I tried it and lots of languages like it (for exxample Groovy). For me it’s much more harder to learn and develop. Simple one-line fixes with Groovy/Grails, Java-based editor and deployment (using Tomcat) was like a hell - it takes too more time and it’s not good for old computers.</p>
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<p>Eh, don’t be that hard on Java:</p>
<ul>
<li>The types help ensure your program is correct, which cannot be said about Elixir (though java does not go far enough, everything can be cast to an Object like you can to <code>void*</code> in C, blehg)</li>
<li>Tomcat is indeed hell, but don’t use it, there are <em>much</em> better server containers for java programs than Tomcat.</li>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>PHP - Easy to setup, but you need really lots of experience to secure it + you need to control your code really good. I remember true hell trying to help busy administrator in my first work. I was need to reinstall Joomla! and Wordpress sites really often and we waste lots of time on it. Also I heard about lots of security problems with PHP. It’s why in my first job we was focused on Groovy/Grails and Ruby/Rails.</p>
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<p>Java7 is actually <em>much</em> faster than before and you can make good software in it now without fighting with it too much.  However Joomla and Wordpress are both ‘old PHP’ things that are <em>not</em> made well.  And with PHP it is easier to have security problems, but with enough discipline those are minimized (however yes, there are still lots of security issues with PHP, PHP7 closed more of those thankfully).  It’s still faster than Ruby/Rails though.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>Ruby - For me it was a really good step forward. Much more secure that PHP and much more faster than Groovy/Grails + Tomcat, but it’s not all we can achieve.</p>
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<p>More secure by default is great yeah, but using PHP frameworks you get a lot of that too (if you tried to, say, re-implement Rails on Ruby you’d probably have a lot of security issues as well), but even by default Rails has a lot of security issues that are easy to fall in to unless you know to avoid them.  Also Ruby/Rails is a <em>lot</em> slower than Groovy (no clue about Grails), and tomcat you should avoid anyway.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>Elixir - One command mix new is just too big advantage for me to even think about return to other languages. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>You get this with about any language with any decent IDE, and many languages, like Rust, do the same built-in.  I think the biggest advantage of Elixir is it is built on the BEAM and instead of entirely ignoring its heritage it instead embraces it, which helps people to write proper code the first time instead of trying to figure it out (great docs for the BEAM!).</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/48/6822_2.png" class="avatar"> hubertlepicki:</div>
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<p>Well, Facebook is doing well with PHP, the chances are you can actually build decent software with it now days.</p>
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<p>Also people need to quit saying that Facebook is using PHP, because they are not.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"><br>
They are using HHVM, which is PHP-like in syntax, but it has types (whoo) and is <em>much</em> faster and has a different API and more and more.  You can run PHP on it as well (and it is still faster than normal PHP) but it is not taking full advantage of its enhanced API and without putting the Types in the source it will not run as fast as it possibly can anyway.  Facebook uses HHVM, they don’t use PHP anywhere anymore.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
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<p>Eh, don’t be that hard on Java:</p>
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<p>I’m not hard for Java. It’s my experience using Groovy/Grails and Tomcat about 2 years ago.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>The types help ensure your program is correct, which cannot be said about Elixir (though java does not go far enough, everything can be cast to an Object like you can to void* in C, blehg)</li>
</ul>
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<p>I don’t had yet any problems related to that, so it’s not a best pros for me.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
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<ul>
<li>Tomcat is indeed hell, but don’t use it, there are much better server containers for java programs than Tomcat.</li>
</ul>
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<p>I don’t - it was introduced in my first job. Owner was a really good person that listen others, but anyway imagine that he will change working solution like Tomcat to something else, because new developer says that it’s a slow as hell. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Java7 is actually much faster than before and you can make good software in it now without fighting with it too much.  However Joomla and Wordpress are both ‘old PHP’ things that are not made well.  And with PHP it is easier to have security problems, but with enough discipline those are minimized (however yes, there are still lots of security issues with PHP, PHP7 closed more of those thankfully).  It’s still faster than Ruby/Rails though.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>You mean PHP 7, right? <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"><br>
I also heard something about it and I can agree that it’s faster than Ruby, but in these 2 languages speed is not a big problem for newbie. They are enough fast to start work on it without required break for tea. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>More secure by default is great yeah, but using PHP frameworks you get a lot of that too (if you tried to, say, re-implement Rails on Ruby you’d probably have a lot of security issues as well), but even by default Rails has a lot of security issues that are easy to fall in to unless you know to avoid them.  Also Ruby/Rails is a lot slower than Groovy (no clue about Grails), and tomcat you should avoid anyway.</p>
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<p>Hmm, interesting … I don’t compared their runtime speed. I don’t have so much time to <strong>develop</strong> two small similar projects. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
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<p>You get this with about any language with any decent IDE, and many languages, like Rust, do the same built-in.  I think the biggest advantage of Elixir is it is built on the BEAM and instead of entirely ignoring its heritage it instead embraces it, which helps people to write proper code the first time instead of trying to figure it out (great docs for the BEAM!).</p>
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<p>hahah, you don’t understand me - I mean a result of that command like example of documentation and tests. Sorry, next time I will be more precise <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>I’m not hard for Java. It’s my experience using Groovy/Grails and Tomcat about 2 years ago.</p>
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<p>Groovy sucks, no clue about Grails, and tomcat is utterly horrible.  ^.^;</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>I don’t had yet any problems related to that, so it’s not a best pros for me.</p>
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<p>You’d never really had an issue where you accidentally passed a <code>{:ok, something}</code> to a function instead of a <code>something</code>?  Or wanted to have a restricted set of inputs to a certain function that would not accept anything else and enforce the caller to verify it is correct before, say, blindly passing in user input?  Or etc… etc… etc…?  Type systems are awesome as they categorically prevent all those issues and far far far more.  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>I don’t - it was introduced in my first job. Owner was a really good person that listen others, but anyway imagine that he will change working solution like Tomcat to something else, because new developer says that it’s a slow as hell. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Tomcat is not only slow but by default is <em>very</em> open and can be taken over with ease (locking it down is a first step of any install of it, and it is easy to miss a lot of vectors).  But the container api for java is pretty well standard so you can literally take the server you have no and replace tomcat with a better one and it should all still ‘just work’ (usually).  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>You mean PHP 7, right? <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Er, yes!  ^.^;</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>I also heard something about it and I can agree that it’s faster than Ruby, but in these 2 languages speed is not a big problem for newbie. They are enough fast to start work on it without required break for tea. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Not just a little faster either, it is a magnitude of difference.  But yeah not an issue if serving up to a few a second, but getting more than that and PHP can still survive where even well crafted Ruby/Rails apps will fail.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>hahah, you don’t understand me - I mean a result of that command like example of documentation and tests. Sorry, next time I will be more precise <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Even then it is common in a lot of languages (either built-in or via template-new-project-systems).  ^.^</p> 
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<p>I’m not hard for Java. It’s my experience using Groovy/Grails and Tomcat about 2 years ago.</p>
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<p>Groovy/Grails  was … mistake <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20">  Kotlin is going to fix this mistake.</p> 
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								<p>You might find these threads interesting <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p><a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-appealing-aspects-of-elixir/2440" rel="nofollow">https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-appealing-aspects-of-elixir/2440</a></p>
<p><a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-elixir-slides-from-my-elixir-presentation/2431" rel="nofollow">https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-elixir-slides-from-my-elixir-presentation/2431</a></p>
<p><a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/if-elixir-were-an-animal-what-would-it-be/2353" rel="nofollow">https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/if-elixir-were-an-animal-what-would-it-be/2353</a></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/eiji/48/36743_2.png" class="avatar"> Eiji:</div>
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<p>In Elixir the only limitation while deploying is my network upload speed (uploading release archive to multiple nodes) and compilation is really fast enough for such situations.</p>
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<p>Actually the deployments for our java micro services is normally faster than with elixir.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
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<ul>
<li>Tomcat is indeed hell, but don’t use it, there are much better server containers for java programs than Tomcat.</li>
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<p>I do not think that this is true anymore.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/48/2677_2.png" class="avatar"> OvermindDL1:</div>
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<p>tomcat is utterly horrible</p>
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<p>why do you think so?</p>
<p>and for java vs elixir… if you use and environment that is not just a postgres DB it can be really time consuming to use elixir where is just works with java…</p> 
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