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                  dimitarvp
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/cmkarlsson/48/23000_2.png" class="avatar"> cmkarlsson:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>A tad bit more aggressive than I anticipated <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Sincerest apologies, please rest assured it wasn’t meant that way, I’m getting older and often don’t want to put the soft gloves. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>My general stance is that our area never learns. By the time most of us are mature enough to contribute… we usually no longer want to, and then the “innovations” are left for the youngsters who make a whole huge bunch of new and exciting errors. Quite tragic.</p>
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<p>But. “I refuse to learn a dysfunctional prolog/ruby dialect with abysmal error reporting (for erlang)” is generally what I hear.</p>
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<p>Eh. I’m sure we’re forgiven if we do not take seriously people who judge by syntax.</p>
<p>At this point in my life and career I found out I can easily learn and work with most of the programming language syntaxes I ever stumbled upon – and that people’s misgivings about them are usually shallow. Syntax can get in the way of thinking about a problem and that’s a legitimate complaint but again, it’s the one that’s very rarely raised.</p>
<p>My only remark towards Erlang / Elixir is that we could use some more static strong typing but at the end of the day I’ll just use (or roll my own) runtime validation library and that’ll be me nailing my developer experience.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/thiagomajesk/48/31904_2.png" class="avatar"> thiagomajesk:</div>
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<p>At this point in my life, I’m taking whatever makes my life easier and I’m glad other people are tackling those problems because I surely don’t have time to invest in fixing this BS myself <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/sweat_smile.png?v=15" title=":sweat_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":sweat_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> haha.</p>
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<p>2 words: “technical debt”. I will not adopt tools that:</p>
<ul>
<li>are not time tested</li>
<li>already mortgaged its future, ie.: betting on exponential growth</li>
<li>I don’t understand how it works myself</li>
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								<p>I don’t really get the <em>“I don’t understand how it works myself”</em> part, but I guess everyone can choose what they can do with their free time!? So, If your passion is understanding your whole toolchain down to the last zeros and ones, go for it - I guess tools have different audiences… This is not my reality though; these days I’m more concerned about cumulative “energy debt” and living a simpler life <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/sweat_smile.png?v=15" title=":sweat_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":sweat_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>I believe he meant that he should at least be able to find out the basis of how the tool functions, or he should excuse me if I misinterpreted him.</p>
<p>Like f.ex. how I inspected some of the zsh “plugin managers” and found out they were just thin wrappers around several <code>git</code> commands.</p> 
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								<p>I meant they are or’ed together. Let me rephrase:</p>
<p>I can only adopt tools that are time tested, or does not depends on hype, or simple to understand. I don’t think PKGX check any of the boxes.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/dimitarvp" rel="nofollow">@dimitarvp</a> I did get what <a class="mention" href="/u/derek-zhou" rel="nofollow">@derek-zhou</a> said haha. What I meant is that don’t necessarily share his stance on this… Although I am a curious person, I don’t feel particularly compelled to focus <em>too much</em> on this side of things, in other words, I like looking under the hood, but I’m satisfied with not knowing how <em>every single</em> piece of it works as long as it keeps working - it’s a fractal thing <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye.png?v=15" title=":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" class="emoji" alt=":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20">.</p> 
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								<p>Necro alert!</p>
<p>If the thing works but makes a mess I have to then fix, then why do I need it? I needed <em>days</em> to remove Nix from my Mac some 2-3 years ago. Their own uninstaller made a mess – it’s the thing I tried first. And then went spelunking on the net how to truly remove it.</p>
<p>In any case, I am very much in favour of good installation tools. But I think everyone stops short at “eh, works good enough” and we arrive at the classic XKCD situation:</p>
<p>          <a href="https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards_2x.png" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc" class="onebox">
            <img src="https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards_2x.png" width="690" height="391">
          </a>
</p>
<p>The IT area is a mess and has been for a long time. Until somebody rolls up their sleeves and understands what is doing what, indeed down to the ones and the zeroes, the IT area will not improve.</p>
<p>Have you taken a look at the terminal protocols? By the void, I wish I have not! Just one example, and not even the worst one.</p> 
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								<p>I use NixOS to deploy production Phoenix projects and it has been really nice, much nicer IMHO than Docker. For me, NixOS is closer to Terraform than a package manager. You don’t need to learn a new language to get started. I haven’t started using <code>foldl’</code> until recently, 3 years after installing NixOS on my main machine. You can get by with just <code>with</code>, <code>inherit</code>, <code>map</code> and defining a function.</p>
<p>Deploying a Phoenix service on a machine for me is as simple as this (deploying on the prod branch with a certain commit). Migration and seed services are also defined for each environment and databases are created automatically. SSL renewal is handled by NixOS services.</p>
<pre data-code-wrap="elixir"><code class="lang-elixir">imports = [path/to/service.nix];
...
services.my-app = {
  enable = true;
  environments = {
    prod = {
      host = "myhost.tld";
      commit = "commit-rev";
      port = 5000;
      ssl = true;
    };
  };
};
</code></pre>
<p>If you change the commit, it will automatically restart services that are affected by this change and that is that.</p> 
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								<p>Yeah, I heard it is nice for prod deployment – thanks for showing your setup. I am not disputing that. I was aiming at the dev setup; I found that one too troublesome.</p> 
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                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="378551"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-last-post cat-last-post" title="Last post!"></div>
  </section>
</div>
</template></turbo-stream><turbo-stream action="replace" target="load-more-container"><template><div id="load-more-container" class="load-more-container">
    <span class="all-loaded">— All posts loaded —</span>
</div></template></turbo-stream>