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                  rhcarvalho
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/278dde/48.png" class="avatar"> KP123:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>That plus being able to return json from <code>render/1</code> would allow me to never use controllers again.</p>
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<p>When do you want to return JSON in a LiveView?</p>
<p>I believe if you were to return JSON instead of HTML with the JavaScript bits to establish a WebSocket connection, then you are in a weird place:</p>
<ul>
<li>What does it mean to live navigate from a “connected, HTML LiveView” into a LiveView that returns JSON? I think this live navigation should be made impossible, because we need to send HTTP headers stating the content-type, and it cannot be done over WebSocket.</li>
<li>This “JSON LiveView” cannot support any LiveView features other than the dead render.</li>
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<p>Why not use a regular controller + template?</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/liveview-feature-to-cancel-second-render/67770/32">Post #31</a>
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									<span>Phoenix Core Team</span>
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								<p>That reminds me of: <a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/controller-implicit-rendering-with-heex/66093/2" class="inline-onebox" rel="nofollow">Controller: Implicit rendering with heex - #2 by LostKobrakai</a></p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/liveview-feature-to-cancel-second-render/67770/33">Post #32</a>
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								<p>Perfect! TIL <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/purple_heart.png?v=15" title=":purple_heart:" class="emoji" alt=":purple_heart:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>edit: TILA (I learned again, because I had already liked that message, means I must have read it before!)</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/rhcarvalho/48/32243_2.png" class="avatar"> rhcarvalho:</div>
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<p>When do you want to return JSON in a LiveView?</p>
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<p>Never. We’re talking about how best to introduce live connection cancellation. My proposal is to never cancel, but be explicit about when you want to connect. Basically have a <code>load</code> function that works as mount before connection then <code>live</code> that works as mount post connection. The nice thing here is that on pages with no live function they function exactly like a single file controller, similar to a svelte file, where I can have my markup, my page load, and page updates all in one file. This is a nicer DX for regular dead pages than what we already have. It has the added benefit of allowing one to even defer the connection until later (call live/3 at some other point) making pages that are “dead for now”.</p>
<p>To get to your question however what I’m proposing is since we can now (in my theoretical universe) render “dead” pages like LiveViews, we can allow renders of any “dead” content like json. I just took the calling convention from LiveView native instead of ~SWIFT I chose ~JSON</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/steffend/48/20548_2.png" class="avatar"> steffend:</div>
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<p>This came across my mind as well. Maybe what people actually want is a</p>
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<p>This example is exactly what I want. The ergonomics of a single file for dead page renders</p> 
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								<p>I think the proposed <code>auto_connect?: true</code> option is exactly what I want. Because it retains the benefits of “allowing” to be connected for things like live navigation to not require a full reload, and fits very nicely w/ the current design of LV.</p> 
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								<p>The <code>auto_connect: false</code> would be like a “deferred connected LiveView”. The LiveView may be connected or disconnected depending on how one lands on it.</p>
<p>How would you decide when to use that feature (vs a colocated Controller+View or a regular connected LiveView)?</p>
<p>For my documentation pages I guess I’d still use LiveViews in the connected fashion, so that the different behaviors are more predictable (redeploy, navigation in/out of the page, and sometimes Presence). But maybe I’m still not fully grasping the problem space.</p> 
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								<p>I think I wouldn’t see a need to ever use a Controller+View if I can tell the LV not to connect. They become equivalent in ways that matter and better in other ways, right? Essentially acting as an actually static page, w/ no connect, avoids things like users seeing a “we can’t find the server” on a page that has no need of it, etc. The way that they are better is that if I push_navigate to them I don’t have to do the whole handshake again, it will just use the socket. Although I guess at that point there might be a disconnection message, but perhaps that can leverage this information too to say “don’t try to reconnect either if no LV on the page needs it” <a class="mention" href="/u/steffend" rel="nofollow">@steffend</a> would that make sense?</p>
<p>I haven’t considered the redeploy scenario though. But as soon as you want things like presence, live updates etc. you’d remove the <code>auto_connect: false</code> setting.</p> 
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								<p>Are things like user sessions fixed with this as well? I thought we still needed controllers for that?</p> 
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								<p>That’s a whole different discussion. But also that’s not really a “fixable” behaviour.</p> 
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