<turbo-stream action="append" target="posts_list"><template>    <div class="postbit" id="358331" data-post-id="358331">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="BartOtten" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/BartOtten/120/25440_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  BartOtten
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>I propose that we conclude the naming debate with a straightforward process so this debate won’t be just another debate but has a conclusion <em>for those seeking an alternative name without causing 50 variants all over the place.</em></p>
<p>Let’s invite concise, well-reasoned naming suggestions from anyone interested in contributing until <strong>March 14th</strong>.</p>
<p>Next, we can use a multi voting mechanism so people can express their top 5. <strong>March 21st</strong>.</p>
<p>Once we have a short list of viable alternatives, we can use a simple voting mechanism to select the name that best captures the distinction from LiveView. <strong>March 28th</strong>.</p>
<p>Then simply present the result and call the winning name. After, we will see what happens. Nobody ever voted for DeadView but it spread nonetheless so I have hope it’s a matter of providing an alternative name for those not willing to call it DeadView.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358331" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/42">Post #41</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358331" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358331"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #41"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358332" data-post-id="358332">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="hubertlepicki" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/120/6822_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  hubertlepicki
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>Sir. This has wasted too many CPU cycles of too many brains already. There’s no issue to be addressed.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358332" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        11
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/43">Post #42</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358332" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358332"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #42"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358333" data-post-id="358333">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="BartOtten" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/BartOtten/120/25440_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  BartOtten
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>Sir, feel free not to participate.</p>
<p>I know that I and others have stumbled upon the name DeadView a few times when we wanted to mention non-Live and wasted cycles by thinking “should do better”. The reason this thread is this long is simply to have all options considered and giving everyone a <em>chance</em> to participate.</p>
<p>Hope to once and for all address the issue <em>some</em> have and move on.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358333" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/44">Post #43</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358333" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358333"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #43"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358334" data-post-id="358334">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="hubertlepicki" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/120/6822_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  hubertlepicki
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>I will not, and that’s the point. If you set up some committee, some voting mechanism, maybe an online survey and then only people who are actually interested in policing words <em>that are not even in official use</em> will take part in your survey, you risk this being used as a proof of community wants to change something that doesn’t need changing because <em>it doesn’t exist</em>.</p>
<p>There are no “DeadViews” - you made it up.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358334" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        9
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/45">Post #44</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358334" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358334"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #44"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358335" data-post-id="358335">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="BrightEyesDavid" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/BrightEyesDavid/120/25042_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  BrightEyesDavid
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="BartOtten" data-post="41" data-topic="69772">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>The problem with View is that it’s human nature to use a contrasting term. View is the generic part in LiveView. Live being the type. So what’s the other type?</p>
<p>Regular imho does not seem to fit either. For many, LiveView is the regular type they use these days and the other View is for edge cases.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>In the context of web development, the other type is the standard. I can default to using LiveView myself while holding this knowledge of the wider context. So I think “standard view” works for those who wish to avoid “dead”.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group quote-modified" data-username="BartOtten" data-post="39" data-topic="69772">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Now I think of it: the reason I removed [StillView] was due to a thin link with “death”. But…that connotation is only there due to the current naming.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>“Still” as a noun immediately connects to a stillborn (baby) in my mind, and not <em>just</em> because of my having seen “DeadView”. (Though that’s a factor. ) If the concern with DeadView is that it’s too negative, StillView would not make any sense to me.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group quote-modified" data-username="AstonJ" data-post="27" data-topic="69772">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/astonj/48/15_2.png" class="avatar"> AstonJ:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I don’t think it would be an issue correcting older posts so they are in line with the proper terminology (post history would remain in tact). […]</p>
<p>Ultimately part of the purpose of this forum is to help the community by doing things like guiding newcomers.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>If this were a wiki, that would track with me. But a forum is a forum in which people can be heard, and I think most expect that their posts generally remain as they intended.</p>
<p>Those who are already familiar with “DeadView” may search the forum for that term.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group quote-modified" data-username="BartOtten" data-post="42" data-topic="69772">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I propose that we conclude the naming debate with a straightforward, community-driven process.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>I think you’ve made the point about “dead”, and received some well-considered replies. I expect that its use will somewhat subside without making it a whole thing.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358335" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        3
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/46">Post #45</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358335" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358335"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #45"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358337" data-post-id="358337">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="BartOtten" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/BartOtten/120/25440_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  BartOtten
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>In the past a few of such topics were opened, just didn’t know about them.</p>
<p>All came to half a conclusion: would be nice to have something else but nobody made the conclusive call. As a result I -and others as you see in this thread- don’t know which name to use instead so we unhappily fallback to using DeadView, enforcing it further.</p>
<p>What if I decided to use StillView unknowing of the negative connotation it bares for others? Or it’s called 5 different things in one thread?</p>
<p>So this time I hope the result is not only debate (which some consider negative) but a name to be used <em>by those seeking a (part of the) community shared alternative name</em>.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358337" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        0
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/47">Post #46</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358337" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358337"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #46"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358352" data-post-id="358352">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="hubertlepicki" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hubertlepicki/120/6822_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  hubertlepicki
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="BartOtten" data-post="47" data-topic="69772">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>What if I decided to use StillView unknowing of the negative connotation it bares for others?</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Then do not seek negative connotations of every single word and oppose when someone will want to do that to “still”.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358352" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        4
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/48">Post #47</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358352" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358352"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #47"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358353" data-post-id="358353">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="BartOtten" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/BartOtten/120/25440_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  BartOtten
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>Let’s get back on track</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358353" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/49">Post #48</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358353" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358353"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #48"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358362" data-post-id="358362">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="hbko" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hbko/120/37715_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  hbko
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>I think it will be nice if the “new” name is closer to the equivalent functionality in other frameworks. Like suggested above, non-LiveViews are the V in MVC and so I think “View” is the best candidate. Calling it a View also removes any negative connotation (it’s not deprecated, it’s a perfectly valid solution for variety of use cases, etc).</p>
<p>In turn a LiveView then translates to a View + something extra.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358362" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        7
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/50">Post #49</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358362" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358362"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #49"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="358365" data-post-id="358365">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="annad" src="/assets/icons/user-9f439610.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  annad
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>You all are light years ahead of me when it comes to Phoenix Elixir, but I wanted to add a data point.</p>
<p>I haven’t posted questions for awhile because I’ve been using AI which is heavily reliant on this forum for its answers. I’m mentioning this to share the fact that terminology used in the Elixir Forum gets fed into AI tools and picked up by newer users (and intermediate users like myself). I’m not sure if it would make a huge impact to replace previous posts with the newer term, but I just wanted to mention this as a user who relies heavily on AI assistance.</p>
<p>So I did a quick search on <a href="http://you.com/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">You.com</a> using GPT-4o and it gave me this:</p>
<p>A <strong>Dead View</strong> is a traditional, static view in Phoenix. It renders HTML on the server and sends it to the client, but there is no persistent connection or real-time interactivity.</p>
<p>I then asked it common terms used for views that are not live views and it gave me this answer:</p>
<p>The most common term used for views that are not LiveViews in Phoenix is <strong>“controller-rendered views”</strong> or simply <strong>“regular views”</strong>. These views are rendered using the traditional Phoenix MVC (Model-View-Controller) pattern, where the controller processes the request, fetches data, and renders a template to generate a static HTML response. This is in contrast to <strong>LiveViews</strong> , which are stateful and interactive, relying on WebSocket connections for real-time updates.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="358365" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        9
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/proposal-refrain-from-using-deadview-endorse-an-alternative/69772/51">Post #50</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-358365" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="358365"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #50"></div>
  </section>
</div>
</template></turbo-stream><turbo-stream action="replace" target="load-more-container"><template><div id="load-more-container" class="load-more-container">
    <a class="load-more-button" data-turbo-stream="true" href="/topics/69772/load_more?page=6">Load more posts (38 remaining)</a>
</div></template></turbo-stream>