<turbo-stream action="append" target="posts_list"><template>    <div class="postbit" id="362834" data-post-id="362834">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="garrison" src="/assets/icons/user-9f439610.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  garrison
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>Thanks for the reply! It’s good to hear from someone working on this directly. Unlike you I am <em>not</em> currently working on anything in this area, so I am operating almost entirely on intuition. But with that said I do have some <em>suspicions</em> as to how things will play out, and I’ve voiced some of them already.</p>
<p>I think it’s more important that we provide “building blocks” in Elixir rather than an “agentic framework” per se, since the BEAM itself provides that framework. Not even OTP necessarily, but the scheduler and runtime is just so well-suited to the task IMO. Providing tools for tool calling, monitoring, etc is what will be important. From a cursory look I see Jido is providing some of those things, so I think you’re probably on to something there.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="11" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>any dreams of massive swarms of agents demonstrating collective intelligence are still dreams - Elixir is more suited to larger swarms of agents due to OTP</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Yeah, I don’t see the value proposition for “swarms of agents” or anything like that (seems almost anthropomorphic tbh). But Elixir is great because it will scale out so well if you deploy a real app with real users.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="11" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>and realized that some of the features of Jido are simply constrained implementations of OTP</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Of course one can get fantastic value out of this model. The best example would be LiveView, which is “just” a GenServer if you squint and yet provides much more than the sum of its parts in practice.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="11" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Elixir is well-suited for this - but suffers from a slower iteration cycle</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>I think it’s best not to get distracted here. There is a lot of hype nonsense going around (see my above comment about protocols) which is probably not going to stick. The LLMs are the only interesting thing about LLMs (imagine that) - so it’s best to focus on them. APIs will come and go (and can be trivially implemented with Req and so on).</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="362834" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/12">Post #11</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-362834" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="362834"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #11"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="362840" data-post-id="362840">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="mikehostetler" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/120/20620_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  mikehostetler
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>I love talking and thinking about this stuff! The depth of conversations I’ve had from other community members makes me appreciate Elixir even more</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it’s more important that we provide “building blocks” in Elixir rather than an “agentic framework” per se, since the BEAM itself provides that framework.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, I’m 100% with you here - this is why I was opinionated about keeping any specific LLMs out of Jido core. LLM’s are implemented as specific Agents, Skills and Actions in the <code>jido_ai</code> package - I was pretty happy with how well this worked</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Yeah, I don’t see the value proposition for “swarms of agents” or anything like that</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Short term - no - I don’t know of any examples deploying many unique agents right now.  That said, I see a natural evolution where a product implements a 1-to-many agent pattern where one agent orchestrates the work of other agents on behalf of a user. This was the breakthrough that <a href="https://manus.im/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Manus</a> demonstrated so well.</p>
<p>I’m not convinced this is good though - as you said it gets very anthropomorphic and too magical. Interestingly, I have asked my kids about this (ages 15 &amp; 17) and they have less of an issue - so I’m acknowledging some personal bias here.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it’s best not to get distracted here.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Solid point - I pushed out the Jido weather example and went on holiday for Spring Break - which has prompted a lot of this reflection. I’ve been soaking up other example frameworks, reading everything I can get my hands on etc</p>
<p>This was a great read as well.</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/humanlayer/12-factor-agents" class="onebox" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://github.com/humanlayer/12-factor-agents</a></p>
<p>It’s been easy to get lost in the weeds - I’m back to building agents this week with some fresh perspectives and will be shipping more soon!</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="362840" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        6
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/13">Post #12</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-362840" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="362840"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #12"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="362859" data-post-id="362859">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="nallwhy" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/nallwhy/120/37709_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  nallwhy
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>Really enjoying this thread—so many insightful takes. I’d love to add a perspective from someone currently building a service on top of <strong>Ash</strong> and <strong>Ash AI</strong>(<a href="https://github.com/ash-project/ash_ai" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">GitHub - ash-project/ash_ai: Structured outputs, vectorization and tool calling for your Ash application · GitHub</a>), where we’re integrating an agent-style chatbot into a real workflow.</p>
<p>One thing I believe strongly:</p>
<p><strong>An agent’s job is to elevate and clarify user intent, then communicate and act on it to drastically simplify the UX.</strong></p>
<p>In the app I’m building, the flow looks something like this:</p>
<p>a user uploads a contract file and just says <em>“process this”</em>.</p>
<p>The agent then:</p>
<ul>
<li>reads the file and extracts key data</li>
<li>checks if the referenced client is already in the system</li>
<li>creates the client if necessary</li>
<li>continues to create an invoice→ all while mixing automation with UI-driven confirmation, so the user stays in control.</li>
</ul>
<p>Internally, this feels <strong>incredibly natural and surprisingly fluid</strong> .</p>
<p>Where Elixir shines in this setup:</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Ash Framework</strong>: The declarative power of Ash is hard to overstate. It lets me define tools cleanly and declaratively, which plug seamlessly into AshAI. This means I can expose my application logic as “tools” with almost no extra effort.</li>
<li><strong>LiveView or Channels</strong>: Real-time interaction with the user is crucial. For example, once the agent identifies what kind of data needs to be confirmed, we bring the user to a LiveView-powered form to review/edit inputs. Once confirmed, the agent resumes and continues the workflow. This kind of multi-step, multi-view interactivity is where LiveView or channels make things incredibly smooth.</li>
</ul>
<p>I’m still early in the journey, but this combination of structured domain logic and real-time agent orchestration feels like a <strong>powerful direction</strong>.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="362859" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        9
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/14">Post #13</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-362859" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="362859"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #13"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="363011" data-post-id="363011">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="bradley" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bradley/120/25949_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  bradley
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>I’ve played around with porting ADK to Elixir.</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/bradleygolden/adk-elixir" class="onebox" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://github.com/bradleygolden/adk-elixir</a></p>
<p>The repo (which isn’t deployed to Hex) is mainly an experiment in trying to understand what it means to implement AI agents in Elixir. I will say firsthand, after diving into the ADK framework, that we have a HUGE advantage over the Python ecosystem in the sense that deployment is just… not a thing for us. It’s wild how much simpler it is in Elixir. Plus, we can theoretically spin up agents at runtime for thousands, if not millions, of users and spin them down on demand.</p>
<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="11" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Author of <a href="https://github.com/agentjido/jido" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Jido</a> here</p>
<p>I’m actively wrestling with these ideas. I’ve implemented several “Applications” with Jido now that … after finishing them … I really struggle to answer whether they are better with Jido or not. Long term - a few GenServers that wrap req calls to LLM API’s are better.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>I couldn’t agree more with you! I’m also wrestling with whether these abstractions are necessary. That said, I think things <em>could</em> be a lot easier. For example, maybe I want to perform <a href="https://google.github.io/adk-docs/evaluate/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">evaluations</a> against a few agents that are chained together in some way, and ensure they perform tool calls as expected, etc. etc. Right now, I don’t think that experience is all that pleasant.</p>
<p>Additionally, I think it would be helpful to have dedicated telemetry and monitoring around AI agents so I can easily introspect them. I haven’t used <a href="https://www.langchain.com/langsmith" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Langsmith</a> or <a href="https://www.langchain.com/langgraph" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">LangGraph</a>, so I can’t say whether they’re useful or not, but that kind of tooling seems potentially valuable.</p>
<p>While we could use Oban or other existing tools, it still feels like I’m building something custom that’s prone to error. Maybe this is a bad analogy, but it kind of feels like reinventing auth, where each agent has its own error-prone setup, and a simplified framework could help ensure things are done correctly.</p>
<p>So, I’m leaning toward the idea that we probably <em>do</em> need something like Jido or ADK, but with the caveat that you might not always need it.</p>
<p>With that said, I need to look at Jido in more detail. You’ve done a ton of work and it looks amazing at quick glance!</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="363011" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/15">Post #14</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-363011" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="363011"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #14"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="363027" data-post-id="363027">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="mikehostetler" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/120/20620_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  mikehostetler
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<blockquote>
<p>I couldn’t agree more with you! I’m also wrestling with whether these abstractions are necessary. That said, I think things <em>could</em> be a lot easier. For example, maybe I want to perform <a href="https://google.github.io/adk-docs/evaluate/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">evaluations</a> against a few agents that are chained together in some way, and ensure they perform tool calls as expected, etc. etc. Right now, I don’t think that experience is all that pleasant.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Agreed - it’s not easily testable in the traditional sense either (ExUnit) - nevermind the evals - but the patterns seem to be emerging</p>
<blockquote>
<p>With that said, I need to look at Jido in more detail. You’ve done a ton of work and it looks amazing at quick glance!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thank you!!!</p>
<p>This blog just dropped from Harrison Chase, author of the original Langchain (in Python): <a href="https://blog.langchain.dev/how-to-think-about-agent-frameworks/" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">How to think about agent frameworks</a></p>
<p>He does a great job and moves this conversation forward. I made a ton of notes and figured it would be helpful to share them here.</p>
<p><em>Note: These notes my notes, so are admittedly Jido focused</em></p>
<ol>
<li>Jido is more correctly defined as an “Agent Abstraction”</li>
<li>Oban is better for predictable workflows in Elixir</li>
<li>Jido has solid orchestration primitives, but this is underdeveloped</li>
<li>Jido is building blocks for making existing systems more agentic - declaration, orchestration, observability, guardrails</li>
<li>Need to invest more in the “multi-agent” story - as that is where Elixir can shine the best</li>
</ol>
<p>Reading this was invigorating and encouraging as I’m strategizing the next big push on Jido. I really think the orchestration and observability focus is what will be the most valuable for the ecosystem going forward.  Would love to hear any other thoughts on this.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="363027" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        3
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/16">Post #15</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-363027" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="363027"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #15"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="363055" data-post-id="363055">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="garrison" src="/assets/icons/user-9f439610.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  garrison
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="13" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>That said, I see a natural evolution where a product implements a 1-to-many agent pattern where one agent orchestrates the work of other agents on behalf of a user</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="mikehostetler" data-post="16" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mikehostetler/48/20620_2.png" class="avatar"> mikehostetler:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Need to invest more in the “multi-agent” story - as that is where Elixir can shine the best</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>I am still very skeptical of this idea. I have followed deep learning progress for a while, and probably the clearest trend I’ve observed (other than scaling laws, perhaps) is that every time something is made differentiable performance improves. Neural nets which are trained separately are essentially guaranteed to perform worse than those trained jointly (and those trained jointly are, philosophically speaking, one model). You can see this trend everywhere - vision, self-driving, and of course language modeling.</p>
<p>As an example, ChatGPT used to generate images by instructing the LLM to prompt an image generator, with mediocre results. The recent “integrated” image generation capabilities were a <em>huge</em> improvement and were the subject of a viral sensation for that reason. Multi-modal models for image and audio understanding, trained jointly, are also a recent trend (everyone is doing it now).</p>
<p>Today there are still use-cases where “multi-agent” or multi-model agents win. Aider for example uses <a href="https://aider.chat/2024/09/26/architect.html" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">separate architect and editor models</a> which they found led to better performance. But Aider is an open source project which cannot afford to train their own models. OpenAI/Anthropic will simply train (and RL) an integrated model and obliterate those results. Maybe they already have.</p>
<p>In the limit, a big, integrated model is always going to win at any task. Squeezing a model’s intent into a limited token stream and transferring it to another model, one which was not even jointly trained to understand said information, is unlikely to produce the best results.</p>
<p>I mentioned that this line of thinking is anthropomorphic - this is what I meant. Humans expect this approach to work because it’s how humans work. A single human cannot be scaled, so we specialize into jobs and pass information around through language. We understand this is inefficient, but we know no alternative.</p>
<p>Models are digital information; they can be perfectly cloned. Human patterns do not apply.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="363055" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        2
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/17">Post #16</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-363055" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="363055"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #16"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="365594" data-post-id="365594">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="garrison" src="/assets/icons/user-9f439610.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  garrison
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>There have been a few recent developments that have me wondering if this pendulum is about to swing in the other direction.</p>
<p>First of all, consumer hardware is continuing to improve as expected. Nothing surprising here, but new GPUs and CPUs (with integrated engines) are getting better at running models.</p>
<p>Second, frontier model progress seems to be stalling out while small open models are improving. GPT4.5 was a flop, Sonnet 3.7 is seen by many as not much better than 3.6. Gemini 2.5 is apparently <em>very</em> good, but they’re just now catching up from their abysmal performance thus far in the race. Llama4 was so bad they had to cheat.</p>
<p>On the other hand, everything I’ve heard about Gemma3 is that it’s a substantial improvement. Qwen3 also seems to have been well received, I think.</p>
<p>But critically, a mainstream lab finally <a href="https://simonwillison.net/2025/May/21/gemini-diffusion/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">released a diffusion model</a>. Like I said before, I don’t fully understand <em>why</em> autoregressive models have kept on winning thus far. The only incentive I see, really, is that the big providers batch their prompts anyway so they don’t care about the waste. But this Gemini Diffusion model is <em>really</em> fast (800+ t/s).</p>
<p>If they release a Gemma3-like diffusion model to the public everything I speculated about here could well be reversed. If this becomes a trend, tools like Bumblebee could be back in play and we could be running models within the BEAM for some tasks. Or even on the client. Not everything needs a terabyte of weights.</p>
<p>Something to think about.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="365594" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        5
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/18">Post #17</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-365594" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="365594"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #17"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="365605" data-post-id="365605">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="garrison" src="/assets/icons/user-9f439610.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  garrison
                    <span class="op-star" title="Thread Starter">
                      <img alt="OP" class="op-star-icon" src="/assets/thread-icons/thread-icon-thread-starter-df91e872.png" />
                    </span>
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="garrison" data-post="18" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/3bc359/48.png" class="avatar"> garrison:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Second, frontier model progress seems to be stalling out while small open models are improving. GPT4.5 was a flop, Sonnet 3.7 is seen by many as not much better than 3.6.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>Of course Claude 4 is announced <em>immediately</em> after I posted this lol. It will be interesting to see if they have made any real progress.</p>
<p>Side note: these companies have <em>got</em> to stop with these ridiculous model names. How is anyone supposed to keep track of any of this.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="365605" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/19">Post #18</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-365605" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="365605"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #18"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="365623" data-post-id="365623">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="dimitarvp" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/dimitarvp/120/38664_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  dimitarvp
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<aside class="quote no-group" data-username="garrison" data-post="19" data-topic="69989">
<div class="title">
<div class="quote-controls"></div>
<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/3bc359/48.png" class="avatar"> garrison:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>Side note: these companies have <em>got</em> to stop with these ridiculous model names. How is anyone supposed to keep track of any of this.</p>
</blockquote>
</aside>
<p>It gives them a nice escape hatch. “Oh, you didn’t use FrobnicatorCanOpenerDeluxeUltra v167.98, of course you’ll get suboptimal results”.</p>
<p>Though as cynical as I am, I believe this to be a nice bonus emergent property that works in their favor. The true reason is that they are having difficult time to catch up with everything, their own strategy included. I kind of sympathize with their predicament but yeah, I’ll agree it’s getting ridiculous at places.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="365623" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        1
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/20">Post #19</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-365623" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="365623"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #19"></div>
  </section>
</div>
    <div class="postbit" id="365631" data-post-id="365631">
  <section>
    <div class="post-wrap">


					<div class="post-header">
		        <div class="user-avatar">
		          <img alt="mindok" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mindok/120/13538_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
		        </div>
					
						<div class="user-details">
		          <div class="user-name">
		            <h3>
                  mindok
                  </h3>
		          </div>
						
						</div>
					
					</div>

	        <div class="thread-main">
	            <div class="post-body" data-turbo="false">
								<p>OpenAI seem to be by far the worst offender. Who thought having o4 and xxx-4o with totally different capabilities was a good idea? Maybe they should have used an LLM to suggest a naming scheme.</p> 
	            </div>

	            <div class="base-line">
	                <div class="thread-counters">
	                    <span class="thread-count count-likes js-likers-trigger" title="Likes" data-post-id="365631" data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                        2
                      </span>
                      <!-- <span class="thread-count js-solved-indicator" title="Marked as solution"></span> -->
	                </div>
	                <div class="go-to-post">
	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/is-anyone-working-on-ai-agents-in-elixir/69989/21">Post #20</a>
	                </div>
	            </div>
              <div id="likers-container-365631" 
                   class="likers-container"
                   data-first-post="false"
                   data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                   <div class="likers-placeholder" 
                     data-likers-post-id="365631"
                     data-batch-url="/posts/batch_likers">
                  <div class="post-likers"></div>
                </div>
              </div>
	        </div>
			

    </div>

    <div class="triangle-top-right type-standard-post cat-standard-post" title="Post #20"></div>
  </section>
</div>
</template></turbo-stream><turbo-stream action="replace" target="load-more-container"><template><div id="load-more-container" class="load-more-container">
    <a class="load-more-button" data-turbo-stream="true" href="/topics/69989/load_more?page=3">Load more posts (6 remaining)</a>
</div></template></turbo-stream>