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								<p>In my short golang career I’ve never dealt with libraries doing bindings to other native binaries but it makes complete sense, as the c ecosystem is a goldmine of libraries that were developed for 10s of years.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lostkobrakai/48/3072_2.png" class="avatar"> LostKobrakai:</div>
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<p>the reason for people opting for zig to deal at that point to enable true cross compilation.</p>
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<p>Indeed, the zig build system and compiler is truly an amazing effort in addressing such an old issue that everyone had to deal separately in each ecosystem. I used zig build system when just it just got released and it was already working pretty well with x86_64 and apple silicon, I can guess it’s only getting better now.</p> 
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		          <img alt="lawik" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lawik/120/32028_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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									<span>Nerves Core Team</span>
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								<p>No worries <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>Oh!  Off topic but this is me working from my couch today:</p>
<p></p><div class="lightbox-wrapper"><a class="lightbox" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/original/3X/f/4/f4f3266a907d60ce8b20748c3fcea7dd0c756215.jpeg" data-download-href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/f4f3266a907d60ce8b20748c3fcea7dd0c756215" title="image" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/uploads/default/original/3X/f/4/f4f3266a907d60ce8b20748c3fcea7dd0c756215.jpeg" alt="image" data-base62-sha1="yWVrRu9N7n7FFpr0tR1JHq7GjM9" width="690" height="462" data-dominant-color="7C6B5A"><div class="meta"><svg class="fa d-icon d-icon-far-image svg-icon" aria-hidden="true"><use href="#far-image"></use></svg><span class="filename">image</span><span class="informations">1200×804 50.7 KB</span><svg class="fa d-icon d-icon-discourse-expand svg-icon" aria-hidden="true"><use href="#discourse-expand"></use></svg></div></a></div><p></p>
<p>Was gonna say that it arrived and forgot (it’s been a month or so at this point).</p>
<p>EDIT: Despite my gaff in my previous post of linking HN when I shouldn’t have, I neglected to link in this one when I should have.  <a href="https://oswag.org/" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Get @lawik’s shirts here.</a></p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lawik/48/32028_2.png" class="avatar"> lawik:</div>
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<p>Java will become indie eventually</p>
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<p>It used to be Java vs C++, nowadays “kids” argue Go vs Rust <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/smiley.png?v=15" title=":smiley:" class="emoji" alt=":smiley:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"><br>
When the topic of programming starts, I feel like an old wizard who can explain computers since the dawn of vacuum tubes.<br>
The shock on CS freshman faces when I explain scaling in Elixir is priceless, friends keep calling me Elixir cult member lol</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/d4no0/48/33624_2.png" class="avatar"> D4no0:</div>
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<p>I think it’s very important to specify in the detail what is the actual issue. BEAM files are architecture agnostic, you could simply change the runtime for the right architecture and everything would work as expected.</p>
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<p>Well I was trying to avoid going off-topic so I didn’t go into detail, but what I mean is it’s somewhat annoying to “ship” an Elixir/BEAM project as a binary. For example, databases like Tigerbeetle (Zig) or CockroachDB (Go) come as a static binary which is easy for people to install. On the other hand, something like RabbitMQ requires OTP to be installed on the server which can be annoying because distro packages are often old.</p>
<p>Obviously this is not the end of the world, it’s just a friction point. Go does this really well which is why I mentioned it.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/c68b51/48.png" class="avatar"> Asd:</div>
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<p>99.9999999% of Go is running on Linux servers. Most of it is x86_64 too.</p>
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<p>Go is very popular for CLI tools which have to run on user machines. As a random example, Flyio’s flyctl is written in Go, probably for this exact reason.</p>
<p>Elixir (the language) would be a dream for writing CLI tools, but Elixir (the runtime) is not, unfortunately.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lawik/48/32028_2.png" class="avatar"> lawik:</div>
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<p>I suppose Oracle is slowly fading into no longer being a proper megacorp. Java will become indie eventually</p>
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<p>Oracle is a black hole into which hope, dreams, and copyrights enter never to return. Nothing that crosses that event horizon will ever be seen again…</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/3bc359/48.png" class="avatar"> garrison:</div>
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<p>On the other hand, something like RabbitMQ requires OTP to be installed on the server which can be annoying because distro packages are often old.</p>
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<p>As someone who never installed rabbitmq directly, looking at this on their site, this is a very strange requirement. Unless I am missing some details, this should not be relevant if rabbitmq were to bundle the runtime together with the software, you would have to download 30-40 MB more though.</p>
<p>At the same time if you are using elixir, simply using elixir releases will create a self-contained release that will not require you to install anything* on the deployed machine (cross-compilation of NIFs aside). Using that is not different in any way from having a single binary.</p>
<p>It’s also important to note that golang doesn’t have a proper VM and not even a part of features that BEAM provides, hence why it can get away with single binaries with their micro runtime embedded in each one of them.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lawik/48/32028_2.png" class="avatar"> lawik:</div>
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<p>React seems to move a lot on whims, I don’t envy tracking that</p>
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<p>Can you elaborate on that? It’s been the most stable library to work with in JS ecosystem from my experience.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lawik/48/32028_2.png" class="avatar"> lawik:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>I suppose Oracle is slowly fading into no longer being a proper megacorp. Java will become indie eventually <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Oracle is doing just fine AFAIK, their profits and stocks are steadily growing. You don’t see the things they do because they focused on the core business and remember that all the “cool” stuff was inherited from Sun, which went bankrupt because these cool stuff didn’t make them money.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/d4no0/48/33624_2.png" class="avatar"> D4no0:</div>
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<p>At the same time if you are using elixir, simply using elixir releases will create a self-contained release that will not require you to install anything* on the deployed machine</p>
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<p>It’s different because you have to build the release somewhere, and that somewhere has to match the target (as we all know). Remember the context in which I brought this up: I was talking about easy cross compilation.</p>
<p>I love Elixir but we can’t kid ourselves here, it’s not good for shipping a binary to <em>users</em>. That’s the only claim I was trying to make.</p>
<p>There <em>are</em> tools (Burrito) to do this which <em>can</em> at least build a static binary, but my understanding is that it has to be unpacked before it can be run. It does this behind the scenes, which is a big improvement, but it’s still not perfect.</p>
<p>Look at how Tigerbeetle ships their DB. It’s a single static binary with no dependencies at all which you can run under systemd or whatever. The nodes cluster with like 3 lines of CLI config. The entire database is stored in one (and only one) file which they manage completely themselves (with <code>io_uring</code> no less). Upgrades are done by replacing the binaries on each server with the next one, after which the cluster seamlessly upgrades itself. Those guys have it <em>down</em>.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/d4no0/48/33624_2.png" class="avatar"> D4no0:</div>
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<p>It’s also important to note that golang doesn’t have a proper VM and not even a part of features that BEAM provides, hence why it can get away with single binaries with their micro runtime embedded in each one of them.</p>
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<p>As a guy who deployed several Golang projects in production… believe me, their runtime is not micro. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/grimacing.png?v=15" title=":grimacing:" class="emoji" alt=":grimacing:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>And I agree with your criticisms on Golang. It had a very good shot at being a globally universally useful language, yet they can’t get rid of <code>nil</code> to this day (to add insult to injury, they even have untyped and typed nils! <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/angry.png?v=15" title=":angry:" class="emoji" alt=":angry:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> ) and still don’t have sum types (C tagged unions / Rust enums) and no pattern-matching.</p>
<p>Oh, and it’s a runtime error to send to a closed channel. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/person_facepalming.png?v=15" title=":person_facepalming:" class="emoji" alt=":person_facepalming:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>Unfortunately Golang is still plenty useful even despite its drawbacks. Hence the eternal dilemma whether to use it.</p> 
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