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									<span>Creator of Hologram</span>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/astonj/48/15_2.png" class="avatar"> AstonJ:</div>
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<h3>As an independent full-stack framework</h3>
<p>Does Hologram require Phoenix to run? If so I don’t think this option would be worth pursuing (unless you have plans for it to run without Phoenix).</p>
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<p>At the moment yes, Hologram does require Phoenix to run. However, at the current stage it would be relatively doable to make it run separately if there was demand for that direction.</p>
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<h3>As a frontend framework that extends Phoenix</h3>
<p>Will Hologram (or is your intended use of it, to) just handle the FE aspects of an app? If so this could be a good option - use Phoenix, and then when you need heavier client side functionality (beyond LiveView) slot in Hologram.</p>
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<p>At the moment that’s essentially the case - Hologram handles the frontend aspects. But I’ve got some ideas related to cross-platform development that would necessitate increasing the scope beyond just frontend concerns. Additionally, implementing some features I envision related to offline support (including client-side data store) would probably require some database integration, which would push beyond pure frontend territory.</p>
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<p>I’d actually suggest that it might be worth putting out some screencasts first yo help show <em>how</em> Hologram can be used, what <em>your</em> intended vision was, and what your ideas or areas of exploration are. I would try to keep the screencasts short as that may lead to more people viewing them (and so more being able to offer an opinion).</p>
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<p>Regarding the screencasts - that’s definitely in the plan and I’m consistently hearing this feedback from the community. I’m planning to create a video playlist once the short-term goals on the roadmap are completed and the framework supports the minimal features that make it usable for real-world applications.</p>
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<p>One thing I might add though is I think it would be difficult to compete with Phoenix. As we’ve seen from large established frameworks (like Rails, and now Phoenix) once they get to a certain point it is hard to displace them, and the other frameworks often just get a smaller, more niche share, unless, they have the potential to replace the current leader on all or most fronts that the leader currently excels in - and then some. I think Volt (Ruby) was a good example of this.</p>
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<p>Yeah, that’s my thoughts as well. You make a valid point about the challenges of establishing a framework in an ecosystem with such a strong incumbent. Though I think there’s always room for innovation that can bring genuinely new approaches and capabilities to the table - sometimes that’s what creates those breakthrough moments that shift the landscape.</p>
<p>Thanks again for taking the time to share your insights - really valuable perspective! <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/oncoming_fist.png?v=15" title=":oncoming_fist:" class="emoji" alt=":oncoming_fist:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>You limited the options some way but let me throw my 2 cents. You could try to position it for API development , think about FastAPI.</p>
<p>API products is a major component of any digital product these days and having a framework specialized in serving it would be of interest. It could have some UI but mainly for required admin and configuration of business logic, access control configuration,.. Etc or it could utilize those  ones ftom other libraries.</p> 
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								<p>Hologram’s primary use case is building UIs with pure Elixir that automatically transpile to JavaScript. The client-server communication is just an implementation detail.<br>
Are we talking about the same thing? <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/wink.png?v=15" title=":wink:" class="emoji" alt=":wink:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> If so, can you elaborate?</p> 
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								<p>I want to add a 5th option:</p>
<ul>
<li>As a pure frontend framework that does not depends on a backend</li>
</ul>
<p>I know, there are no shortage of pure-frontend SPA javascript framework out there. However, there is none in pure Elixir. Given that:</p>
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<li>There is a sizable Elixir community</li>
<li>Many suffer from javascript fatigue</li>
<li>Many of them also need an advanced SSG</li>
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<p>So this is a niche that need filling. Once you gained a foothold here, your full stack vision can be a natual extension.</p> 
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								<p><a class="mention" href="/u/derek-zhou" rel="nofollow">@derek-zhou</a> What other Elixir backend solutions do you have in mind that Hologram could be used with?</p> 
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								<p>I think I caused some misunderstanding. My suggestion is to make Hologram usable as a glorified static site generator. Your core competency is to transpile Elixir to Javascript to run on the client site, right? Can the transpile process be ran once and be decoupled from a backend at runtime?</p> 
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								<p>Yes &amp; No <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20">  <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>I did not pay attention to where you are in development now so I thought from the question maybe you are still at an early stage so I would welcome a lot an API dedicated framework similar to FastAPI “I know we have others doing it now but built in a general purpose to serve other needs too.”</p>
<p>But since you are at that stage I think what some colleagues like <a class="mention" href="/u/derek-zhou" rel="nofollow">@derek-zhou</a> indicated in there responses about making it a front end framework in elixir “at least as a start” because we can have then E2E elixir with a flavor of client side not just server side as phoenix.</p>
<p>All the best</p> 
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<p>I think I caused some misunderstanding. My suggestion is to make Hologram usable as a glorified static site generator. Your core competency is to transpile Elixir to Javascript to run on the client site, right? Can the transpile process be ran once and be decoupled from a backend at runtime?</p>
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<p>Oh… I see. Although I’m familiar with tools such as Astro or Gatsby, I haven’t considered this path. Thanks, that’s an interesting perspective!</p> 
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									<span>Creator of Hologram</span>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/ghannam80/48/35232_2.png" class="avatar"> ghannam80:</div>
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<p>Yes &amp; No <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"> <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
<p>I did not pay attention to where you are in development now so I thought from the question maybe you are still at an early stage so I would welcome a lot an API dedicated framework similar to FastAPI “I know we have others doing it now but built in a general purpose to serve other needs too.”</p>
<p>But since you are at that stage I think what some colleagues like <a class="mention" href="/u/derek-zhou" rel="nofollow">@derek-zhou</a> indicated in there responses about making it a front end framework in elixir “at least as a start” because we can have then E2E elixir with a flavor of client side not just server side as phoenix.</p>
<p>All the best</p>
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<p>Got it. Is there anything specific that you think is missing in Phoenix in this regard?</p> 
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								<p>As elixir adoption grows many will come into the ecosystem not knowing Phoenix all that well regardless of how established it currently is. The task of having to learn Phoenix and then Hologram on top of that rings very different compared to “just use hologram”. Don’t know how feasible that it from a Hologram tech pov but I think its worth keeping in mind.<br>
Keep up the inspiring work! <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/folded_hands.png?v=15" title=":folded_hands:" class="emoji" alt=":folded_hands:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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