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								<p>Just to add a personal data point: I hate tailwind with a passion, and I also hate DaisyUI with a similar degree of passion.</p>
<p>I also didn’t particularly enjoy the flip-flop from webpack to brunch to webpack again (?) to esbuild to whatever “cursed” JS build step the tailwind library uses. In the middle I remember having bootstrap, some other classless framework at some point.</p>
<p>I think the default should be either something old and stable (such as bootstrap) or some classless CsS framework.</p>
<p>But ultimately it’s up to the framework devs to decide what to pick, and those choices are often based on their personal experience using Phoenix.</p> 
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								<p>I am very sympathetic to <a class="mention" href="/u/ahbruns" rel="nofollow">@AHBruns</a> 's response to this (it’s more important to cater to the serious users), but I think an even more salient point to make here is that due to the advent of LLMs the hobby project segment basically no longer exists.</p>
<p>These hobby users do not need pre-built components anymore because they will just generate their projects with a model. If anything <code>core_components</code> should be thrown away and replaced with an <code>LLMs.txt</code> or whatever the cool kids are using. Anyone serious was deleting them first thing anyway.</p> 
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<p>whatever “cursed” JS build step the tailwind library uses</p>
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<p>The Tailwind CLI is written in JS and compiled into a native binary with Bun. At this point Tailwind may as well be Bootstrap so I don’t think it’s an unreasonable choice.</p> 
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								<p>I dislike this. The <code>core_components.ex</code> show newcomers very nicely how to write components.</p>
<p>Any seasoned developer can just delete them which takes like 20 secs?</p> 
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								<p>I think you are assuming that</p>
<ul>
<li>The core components are good, which they are not (that’s why serious developers delete them)</li>
<li>Generated components are the best way to teach newcomers, which they are not (guides are better and we already have them)</li>
<li>Newcomers are using the core components, which they are not (they’re using Claude)</li>
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<p>I understand the argument for having something that works out of the box, but I also think the tide is clearly turning another way. If you don’t see this now, you will in 6 months.</p> 
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<p>These hobby users do not need pre-built components anymore because they will just generate their projects with a model.</p>
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<p>Strongly agree here. I think there are various parts of Phoenix which prove a desire to make it work well (look decent, decent patterns in place, security etc) for newcomers out of the box. I understand the adoption motivation I presume is behind this but as others have said I think it goes too far and with LLMs now a lot of it seems redundant. I really like the idea of an <code>LLMs.txt</code> that supports bootstrapping a decent project out of the box as a replacement/potential new direction.</p>
<p>Hell I might even use that myself whereas I don’t touch any of that stuff right now. Previously I just used my own existing code (or occasionally someone else’s that seemed better) as a template and increasingly one of my main use for LLMs is to bootstrap something new to me so I can use it as a starting point and/or reference as I also work through docs/guides.</p> 
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<p>that’s why serious developers delete them</p>
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<p>Can a serious developer have a hobby-project? Is every serious developer only making large projects?</p>
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<p>anything <code>core_components</code> should be thrown away and replaced with an <code>LLMs.txt</code> or whatever the cool kids are using</p>
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<p>I do know cool kids that cannot spend the money for LLM’s and Agents. Companies can. So let the bots remove DaisyUI. If they can’t, they must not be <em>serious</em> bots cause you know, serious bots always do.</p>
<p>Ergo: your argument can be reversed. If LLM’s can do anything, there is no issue in having Daisy and CoreComponents.</p>
<p>There are various argument errors in your post many of which come down to “if you don’t agree you are dumb”. I suggest you write a little more considerate <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/slight_smile.png?v=15" title=":slight_smile:" class="emoji" alt=":slight_smile:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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<p>guides are better and we already have them</p>
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<p>Last time I checked one is guided from “Installation” into oblivion. Yes, everything is in the guides but calling them ‘easy to follow’ is another thing.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
<blockquote>
<p>If LLM’s can do anything, there is no issue in having Daisy and CoreComponents.</p>
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<p>The way I see it the concern is not so much the inconvenience of removing these elements (although it’s not always a s simple as just deleting a file), but that their presence by default (and maintenance, which bears a significant cost) is actually a detriment to the ongoing evolution of the framework design. The discussion above about LV components was maybe not fully on topic of daisyUI, but it’s relevant to this specific point.</p>
<p>I’ve personally been frustrated in discussions with junior devs or newcomers to Phoenix who take some of the generator patterns as gospel when it’s a fairly established point that they don’t work well in every context and especially not in mature/complex apps. Their presence as “defaults” is not neutral.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bartotten/48/25440_2.png" class="avatar"> BartOtten:</div>
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<p>Last time I checked one is guided from “Installation” into oblivion. Yes, everything is in the guides but calling them ‘easy to follow’ is another thing</p>
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<p>Is “we need DaisyUI because Phoenix’s docs are bad” a position you are actually willing to commit to here?</p> 
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