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								<p>I mean even in your best case situations where there is a legacy of interchange and generally followed protocols almost every user in the world chooses to use one of 3 providers.</p>
<p>Mastodon tried to take advantage of the Elon stuff and failed because no one wants a distributed system like that.  Lots of people tried it and went back to twitter.</p>
<p>Bluesky is only doing better because even with interoperability(is it on the fediverse? I don’t actually use any of those sites to know) most people believe it to just be a single site/source and if you mentioned fediverse they’d probably see it as a negative as they did with mastodon.</p>
<p>It’s a social issue not a technical one and the only ones that want it are generally those already chatting on smaller forums.</p> 
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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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<p>failed because no one wants a distributed system like that</p>
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<p>I think it ① didn’t fail and ② not because people do not want a distributed system (many never heard of the term anyway.) It twitter allowed interchange, everyone migrated would have stayed.</p>
<p>Mastodon didn’t conquer twitter not because of any tech, but because of ten years behind.</p>
<p>The actual social issue is people like crowdy places. If it were for fediverse—people would tolerate distribution, specifically taking into account that 99% of them have zero clue about such a thing. After all, gitlab took a bite of the pie, despite it suffers the very same disease.</p>
<p>I think you miss the point in general. Self-hosting people do not talk about isolation. On the contrary, they talk about erasing boundaries between web presences (what fediverse is all about,) making regular people use whatever they want without even knowing about is it in Mountain View or under their own table.</p>
<p>Now a self-hoster becomes a pariah, it’s like wearing a velvet fedora on a beach. If we were transparently welcome to the “web,” and if the “join” was as easy as installing elixir with asdf to the local computer, many would choose self-hosted.</p> 
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								<p>It didn’t fail because people specifically don’t want distributed systems thats true, the reality is UX wise distributed systems are just worse.</p>
<p>Gitlab took a bite of the pie through the enterprise, the number of opensource projects hosted on gitlab is still tiny even if it has a large foothold in private repo management.</p>
<p>I think you severely overestimate how many people are even slightly interested in that.  Usenet was massive and distributed but also kind of awful because of it so people moved to forums which used to be huge, I at least used to follow dozens.  Then with the rise of digg,  reddit + facebook everyone of those communities has chosen to migrate to centralised spaces.</p>
<p>Distributed is basically always worse because of the coordination overhead.  It’s why cryptocurrencies still suck to use for day to day stuff 16 years after bitcoin launched/10 years after Eth.  It’s why every web3 solution is “This normal thing but worse but thats ok because it’s distributed even though we do actually have central coordination servers because if it was properly distributed it would be unusable”</p> 
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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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<p>UX wise distributed systems are just worse</p>
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<p>Citation needed. In my experience that’s the opposite, save for aforementioned <em>interchange</em>.</p>
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<p>you severely overestimate how many people are even slightly interested in that</p>
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<p>In what? Nobody is interested in “distributed” or any other tech. Everybody is interested in actually owning their content. English is not my mother tongue, but I am deluding myself I can express thoughts in it without any additional supervision. If I meant “𝘥𝘰 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘢 𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘵” I want it to stay that way without a third-party censorship shyly introducing asterisks when I type it without fancy artifice involving <em>utf8</em>. FWIW, this forum does exactly this.</p>
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<p>Distributed is basically always worse because of the coordination overhead.</p>
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<p>This is valid for real-time stuff only. You know what? Nothing must be real-time in the regular user’s web experience, except weather forecasts maybe.</p> 
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<p>Citation needed. In my experience that’s the opposite, save for aforementioned <em>interchange</em>.</p>
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<p>Can you name any distributed systems that has a better UX than a centralised competitor or doesn’t depend on a centralised system to make it usable?  Even email would be useless without the centralised DNS system.</p>
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<p>Everybody is interested in actually owning their content.</p>
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<p>They aren’t though or they wouldn’t move to centralised systems.  People care about others seeing and reacting to their content not owning it.</p>
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<p>This is valid for real-time stuff only. You know what? Nothing must be real-time in the regular user’s web experience, except weather forecasts maybe.</p>
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<p>Even in non-realtime stuff the overhead means you have to spend more time accounting for the coordination issues and less on improving or adding case specific functionality which makes them worse.</p> 
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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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								<p>Would you mind to stop thinking black/white? I never suggested to ditch the centralization and/or centralized systems completely.</p>
<p>DNS <em>must</em> be global by definition. I understand that. I am not an RMS-like freak. Mails themselves though might be held on my HDD without any issue. Have you ever been blocked by your mail provider? I was. Yeah, with all these PDF attachments and whatnot buried six feet under their datacenter.</p>
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<p>They aren’t though or they wouldn’t move to centralised systems.</p>
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<p><em>Tertium non datur</em>? You don’t want working from the yacht sailing in Caribbean because if you wanted you would? That’s not a syllogism though. Pros of centralized in the web <em>now</em> outweight contras of not owning the content. That does not mean people are not angry with centralized.</p>
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<p>on improving or adding case specific functionality</p>
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<p>Really? Have you ever tried the UX of basically every centralized web created in the last decade? Google Search Console? AWS? Facebook? It’s not about better/worse. It’s all about addiction and lack of choice.</p>
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<p>Can you name any distributed systems that has a better UX than a centralised competitor</p>
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<p>Sure. Mastodon (both bare web and mobile.)</p> 
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								<p>I believe Elixir still needs more abstractions, even in its current state. For example, we often hear that Elixir is great for scaling, but a newcomer to the language can easily get lost in the multitude of tasks and concepts.</p>
<p>One successful example of high-level abstraction and reducing complexity could be the <a href="https://github.com/dashbitco/broadway" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Broadway</a> library. In my opinion, it might be a better starting point before moving on to more complex roles.</p> 
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<p>You don’t want working from the yacht sailing in Caribbean because if you wanted you would?</p>
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<p>It would be like if I was working from the yacht and decided to go buy a house and move there instead because I wanted to be around other people and not just a handful of other people on their boats.  Which (sidenote) as someone that seriously considered buying a yacht and living in the Caribbean about 15 years back is actually a pretty common result after a year which is why there are tons of boats for sale around the area rotting away.</p>
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<p>Sure. Mastodon (both bare web and mobile.)</p>
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<p>You literally said a few posts ago that mastodon lost because of how behind it was.  The UX for Mastodon is already worse because you have to first decide on a server so you have decision cost from the start, then you have to hope the server you choose is connected to everyone else that you’re interested in or run your own to control that which is definitely not a better experience.</p> 
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		          <img alt="mudasobwa" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mudasobwa/120/5298_2.png" width="120" height="120" />
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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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								<p>You didn’t get an analogy building the very same reasoning as you did for “They aren’t though or they wouldn’t move to centralised systems.” My bad. Analogies are hard, I should not have it used.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/sanswork/48/39354_2.png" class="avatar"> sanswork:</div>
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<p>You literally said a few posts ago that mastodon lost because of how behind it was.</p>
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<p>I never said it lost in UX though. That’s the point you heavily try to ignore. UX is nothing. Nobody cares about UX. I bet 100 to 1 your bank’s web provides a UX worse than one could ever imagine and yet you are still using it. I do, at least.</p>
<p>For the value that is provided by the service, users would choke on their UX.</p> 
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<p>Nobody cares about UX.</p>
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<p>This is obviously incorrect but a common belief in coder circles.  It’s also why linux on the desktop has been coming next year for the past quarter of a century.</p>
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<p>I bet 100 to 1 your bank’s web provides a UX worse than one could ever imagine and yet you are still using it</p>
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<p>My old bank did, which is why I moved to a different bank.  Thats why neobanks are even a thing and why they got popular so quick because they focused on improving the UX.</p> 
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