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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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								<p>I honestly do not see the difference between a grader and a guy with a shovel. Neither do I see the difference between the developer with vim, developer with a ‘smart’ IDE, and a developer with as AI assistant.</p>
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<p>the real question is whether the latter use of AI is actually desirable, and if not, what steps can be taken to avoid it or at the very least mitigate the harm</p>
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<p>Those are two questions, in the first place. Answering “no” to the former eliminates the latter. Debating whether we are ok with fully offloading our duties to whatever sounds to me like discussing whether we should pay in the supermarkets for our goods, or just steal them.</p>
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<p>I’m guessing you are in that group as well</p>
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<p>It absolutely does not matter what group do I belong. I am a developer, and I ship the code. Do I write it myself, or does my cat writes it in her spare time does not matter. I am responsible for it—always was and always will be. Years ago I have scripts, generators, templates, helpers, libraries from OSS after all. I used them. The universe did not explode.</p>
<p>Now I have AI assistant as well. But I am still the one, being responsible for the code I deliver. When I do a code review and I reject it asking for changes, I do not care who actually produced it, my colleague or their housemaid. I demand quality from the person who signed the commit.</p>
<p>We dealt with junior-written-code, mediocre-developer-wrtitten-code, and whatnot. All that required a sharp eye and an ability to tell good from bad. What has changed? In my humble opinion, nothing has. Maybe the hype is to be mitigated, that’s it.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/62">Post #61</a>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mudasobwa/48/5298_2.png" class="avatar"> mudasobwa:</div>
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<p>Both. Besides that I have a ton of commits to OSS, to Elixir core, to “standard” Elixir libs, to 30+ not-so-standard libs in C, Ruby, Java, Rust.</p>
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<p>This makes sense then. If you do all of this, it means you’re a less invested in a single engineering team comparing to a typical full time developer. And in my experience this is the setting where the friction is felt the most.</p>
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<p>This logic leads to “grader removes snow in a completely different way than a dude with a shovel” statement btw.</p>
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<p>But it does?? Graders are very different from shovels. This difference is very well understood and I don’t think there are a lot of people who would attempt to use grader to clean snow from a roof. That’s the whole point of AI conversation: to understand how it works, what the limitations are and its impact on the world.</p>
<p>I can’t help but notice that you’re very fond of analogies. They can be fine, but most of the time are simply a flawed way of seeing the world and don’t contribute much to the conversation. I think you could make a much stronger point by engaging with the topic directly!</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/63">Post #62</a>
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                  mudasobwa
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<p>I think you could make a much stronger point by engaging with the topic directly!</p>
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<p>Making a point is extremely boring. Analogies bring a poetry to the otherwise meaningless verbiage.</p> 
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<p>What has changed? In my humble opinion, nothing has.</p>
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<p>My opinion, more and more, is that speed changes everything. Only for physicists is it just a matter of degree. For human life, it changes everything.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/65">Post #64</a>
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                  mudasobwa
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/tfwright/48/20299_2.png" class="avatar"> tfwright:</div>
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<p>speed changes everything</p>
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<p>We still have a bottleneck in CR done by human peers.</p>
<p>If the CR is a fiction, we are doomed no matter who or what produced the code. Shitty code in legacy projects, yeah, we all feel that pain. No CR leads to shitty code. The speed of writing the code?—I doubt it.</p> 
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<p>We still have a bottleneck in CR done by human peers.</p>
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<p>Do you? We don’t. We have had trouble getting devs to meaningfully reviews PRs <em>written with care by their human colleagues</em>. No one wants to review slop, including people who care about review. <em>Especially</em> people who care about review. So unfortunately I can’t agree it’s a meaningful solution. If review process is still effective, then you’ve already solved the problem some other way.</p>
<p>If you are going to respond that I should just tell others to get gud so I don’t have to review slop, well, maybe it’s just me whose CEO’s github account is now operated mostly by claude? And he at least acknowledges the problem. But he has clients emailing him about features he otherwise doesn’t have the resources to ship.</p> 
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								<p>Replying to no one in particular: I think the biggest mistake people make when discussing these topics is to assume AI will never get better.</p>
<p>The landscape looked very different before November 2025 vs after. For all we know we may be on the verge of a similar step change. And if (when?) that happens, most of the points people are making today to support whatever their argument is will become obsolete and moot.</p> 
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								<p>This same argument has been made for two years now, it’s ever lasting ”six months ago” rule of AI. I know people think Opus 4.5 was some magical unicorn, but I’m not convinced that’s not just peer pressure, it still makes the most trivial of errors, no matter how high it places on a made up benchmark.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/69">Post #68</a>
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                  mudasobwa
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<p>No one wants to review slop, including people who care about review.</p>
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<p>Well, let me put it straight. It looks like you blame AI assistants for your workflow process. Specfically, taking into account that your team “have had trouble getting devs to meaningfully reviews PRs <em>written with care by their human colleagues</em>.”</p>
<p>What the heck does it mean “no one wants to review slop”? I don’t want to have a 120-symbol limit put on my codeline length, so what? I am paid for working in a team, besides everything else. I produce code, and I read code, and I review code, that’s my job.</p>
<p>If my review results in “this is non-validated slop produced by free tier shitty LLM,” I call a developer who <em>committed</em> it. If it happens for the second time, the developer gets his <em>Big Last Russian Warning</em>. For the third time they got fired (at least they are told so.)</p>
<p>The new reality is we all got crippled but fast assistants. Well, either we align and continue to deliver with the same level of responsibility, or there are lots of better suitable jobs all around, like janitors or plumbers.</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/thiagomajesk/48/31904_2.png" class="avatar"> thiagomajesk:</div>
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<p>But all of the above also speaks to creating a better harness for the LLM to generate code for you, which goes from properly architecting your solution to everything that comes to maintain that (fighting entropy basically).</p>
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<p>Yep. As good as the current mainstream LLMs are, they constantly take shortcuts and are all too eager to do junior-level mistakes. They overfocus on single files and must be continuously reminded of the project’s context.</p>
<p>There are <em>many</em> good practices to working with LLMs and the part I find slightly sad is that everyone is [re]discovering them for themselves. On the other hand, maybe person and project specifics play much bigger role than I sometimes am willing to think.</p>
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<p>Also, it’s useful to remember that the 10x multiplier in the right hands can also be used to refactor and tidy things, so you have to keep your team accountable as before.</p>
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<p>Yep. Though the “10x multiplier” seriously just does not exist. It applies to greenfield projects by people who either barely (or ever) coded, or just a legitimate corp greenfield project. Once you must start integrating with project/org wide practices and other projects/microservices and pay attention to much more context, the LLMs fall apart and you have to introduce very strict guardrails.</p>
<p>I had big success with Claude telling it to make dedicated memory files for a sub-project (f.ex. “let’s support this type of customer that we never did before”) and have them referenced at its root memory file. Honestly worked and still does work wonders, I was surprised.</p> 
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