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                  tozz
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/egeersoz/48/15704_2.png" class="avatar"> egeersoz:</div>
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<p>Humans also make the most trivial of errors constantly. Even if you have decades of experience you probably make them.</p>
<p>The same rule that applies to self-driving cars also applies to AI more generally: it doesn’t have to be perfect to be immensely useful. It just needs to be noticeably better than humans at the given task.</p>
<p>Regarding the “six months ago”, you don’t have to take it from me. Listen to what some of the movers and shakers of our industry are saying:</p>
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<p>I don’t care much for twitter warriors (especially not the ones claiming that OpenClaw was some science fiction future…) and CEO’s. As for self driving cars they have been promised for decades, and now we’re down to taxi services in very specific cities. Cool for sure, but it goes to show the extreme disconnect between “coming soon” and reality.</p>
<p>I said nothing of usefulness (I use Opus 4.5 myself, 4.6 is just broken in regards to token abuse), just that there has been no special change “in the last six months”, it’s just being repeated to sell, and it works.</p>
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<p>So let me ask: are these people (and many other prominent SWEs) saying these things because of peer pressure, or do they know something you don’t? Note that the quotes are all from after Opus 4.5 came out.</p>
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<p>I’ve heard the same quotes (variants of it) since GPT-3 by the same type of people, you have to understand that most of them have something to sell, either a service, product or to get VC investment. The best way to do so is to be on the bandwagon of cash and we all know what that is right now.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/82">Post #81</a>
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<p>I’ve heard the same quotes (variants of it) since GPT-3 by the same type of people</p>
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<p>Sure, there have always been AI shills. That’s not the issue. The point I’m making is that people who used to dismiss AI are, as of several months ago, saying it has become very useful.</p>
<p>Three of the four people I quoted were specifically extremely vocal opponents (“haters”, if you will) of AI since the beginning. DHH especially is referring to his previous resistance to AI, and alluding to how the situation changed because the models improved to the point where they are beyond a certain threshold now.</p>
<p>I can tell you my own company has benefited from Opus 4.5 <a href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/ai-is-getting-ridiculously-productive/74715/19" rel="nofollow">very directly</a>. I definitely could not have done that project with its predecessor models.</p>
<p>Before Opus 4.5, the only similar rate of improvement (outside of coding) was GPT 4o. Its jump in intelligence was noticed by everyone who used GPT models professionally.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/83">Post #82</a>
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								<p>I’ll certainly agree with the people who say that you can’t review and reduce slop if you never had the skill <em>not</em> to produce slop yourself in the pre-LLM era. Absolutely true.</p>
<p>Though what happened to me for a few weeks was a touch different – so much work pressure that I outsourced my brain to Claude for those few weeks. Then I got called out, twice, and I got a grip. But again, as others said, you need to have the skills in the first place, otherwise you’d just blink stupidly at the screen.</p>
<p>As for the rest of the recent comments: I really don’t think we should argue how useful LLMs are.</p>
<p>To detractors: they might not be useful to <em>you</em> and that’s fair – there are many areas where they are not doing well at all (especially where you cannot construct a closed feedback loop for the agent; they perform terribly there) – but you should recognize that your area is not all areas, maybe? There’s a second aspect to this as well: prompting skills. People get very snarky and sarcastic about it for one reason or another but good prompting makes a huge difference and I’ve witnessed a before/after myself, a few dozen times.</p>
<p>To proponents: you really don’t have to try and convince people who don’t want to be convinced. Use the LLM as your competitive advantage and be happy. <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/person_shrugging.png?v=15" title=":person_shrugging:" class="emoji" alt=":person_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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								<p>The discussion isn’t about whether LLMs are useful. It’s about:</p>
<p>a) Did they become significantly more useful with Opus 4.5 in November 2025?</p>
<p>b) Was that a one-time spike or should we expect more like it, and what might that mean for the current thread’s topic?</p> 
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								<p>I respect your takes on LLMs – mostly because they very closely match mine – but I don’t think that was the original topic. Maybe it got shifted to that but originally it wasn’t.</p>
<p>To me “when did LLMs become more useful” is relevant and I agree with the November 2025 pivotal moment. But it’s also mostly immaterial because the people who are skeptical, remain skeptical. That was my point here. It becomes a fest of people talking past each other – I personally don’t find that very interesting.</p>
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<p>b) Was that a one-time spike or should we expect more like it, and what might that mean for the current thread’s topic?</p>
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<p>That’s a bit more interesting to ask indeed. I was an LLM skeptic before Nov 2025 and I still maintain I was correct up until then. I changed my mind when presented with updated info. However, whether we’ll see another jump, I honestly don’t know. What would you theorize?</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/egeersoz/48/15704_2.png" class="avatar"> egeersoz:</div>
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<p>b) Was that a one-time spike or should we expect more like it, and what might that mean for the current thread’s topic?</p>
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<p>I’m gonna direct you back to my response: in the context of this discussion of what OP should do “now” it’s irrelevant if/when models improve.  It’s like saying: “Just throw all your trash on the floor because we’re probably hiring better janitors sometime in the next 1 to 200 months.”</p>
<p>Otherwise, I think it’s clear from this discussion and from the people you quoted that if you are a good (to great) programmer, you can generally get good code (code you want) out of LLMs.  I’m getting a bit all over the place here but I do also that probably at some point if people who refuse to adopt will be pushed out, but as a very recent convert myself I’d say to other nay-sayers that the whole “you’ll be left behind if you don’t adopt NOW” is utter nonsense because yes: it has gotten very very good and it’s quite easy to pick and get really good results immediately.  They won’t always be perfect, but surprisingly very good.  Especially if you describe exactly how you want something implemented (instead of just describe what you want).</p>
<p>That said I’m still doing a lot of hand coding because I enjoy it and I’m not ready to fully trust that these skills are going to be dead as soon as we’re told they will be.  And ya, I deeply resent the “pay to play” aspect of all of this.</p>
<p>Sorry, I got a big unfocused there.</p>
<p>EDIT: And <a class="mention" href="/u/dimitarvp" rel="nofollow">@dimitarvp</a> made the only point I was really trying to make in my first paragraph <img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/upside_down_face.png?v=15" title=":upside_down_face:" class="emoji" alt=":upside_down_face:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p> 
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/c68b51/48.png" class="avatar"> Asd:</div>
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<p>I think that the real solution is about professional improvement, about learning, about writing good code in the first place […]</p>
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<p>The main solution to all the world’s problems is to make sure that each and every individual on the planet is smart, honest, empathetic, spiritual and wonderful in general. Yeah, it’s extremely hard to argue with this.</p>
<p>Someone <em>Samuel Langhorne Clemens</em> once said, “Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain’t so.”</p>
<p>In the meanwhile, we need to tackle issues with <em>sloppy slope</em> (or <em>slippery slop</em>, both sounds equally funny for a parody of an idiom) right away. But hey, were not developers mindlessly copying crap from StackOverflow, forums, even books a decade ago? Were not they (us) making mistakes leaking to merge requests simply because of a lack of competense, flying by deadlines or whatnot? How is a bad code produced by LLM differs from a bad code copied as is from StackOverlow?</p>
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<p>a regular +500/-300 commit</p>
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<p>Excuse me? I ruled out +200/-100 commits yesterday, and I am going to rule them out tomorrow. No matter who produced the code, the tasks/problems themselves should not have changed, should they? “Fix everything in this project” task is not something we shoud blame LLM for.</p>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/c68b51/48.png" class="avatar"> Asd:</div>
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<p>But I don’t think that a person who just generated a 30k lines project of a database or a compiler without prior experience can perform a decent review of their own generated code […]</p>
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<p>Of course. But who actually cares? Those are still pet projects. Let me quote a classic:</p>
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<p>In the hands of people far removed from software development, large language models are doomed to two low-yield applications: you can amuse yourself generating memes of piglets drinking mojitos in the Kremlin, or you can reproduce a product that already exists on the market and that in its niche you’ll never catch up to. — <a href="https://rocket-science.ru/hacking/2026/03/23/software-development-in-2026" class="inline-onebox" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Software Development in 2026</a></p>
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<p>I see many people around alarmed by I don’t actually know what. They shift the responsibility to AI assistants and then they say, oh, the <em>process has changed</em>. The universal answer is <strong>the process mustn’t have been changed</strong>.</p>
<p>Reasonable tasks instead of “With the help of AI, make this leftpadding library to serve coffee and fly to the moon” should stay. Code review should stay. Rules on PR size and everything else should stay. Etc.</p> 
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                  mudasobwa
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									<span>Creator of Cure</span>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/tfwright/48/20299_2.png" class="avatar"> tfwright:</div>
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<p>you may have missed some crucial details</p>
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<p>If you are about the positions of code submitters, I didn’t. I’m to reject the PR from God if I don’t like it.</p>
<p>For my whole life, I’ve been paid mostly for my ability to tell “it’s BS” to anything (ideas/code/whatever) produced by my bosses.</p> 
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	                  <a title="Go to post" alt="Go to post" href="https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/engineering-leads-what-are-you-doing-to-stop-the-slop/74851/89">Post #88</a>
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mudasobwa/48/5298_2.png" class="avatar"> mudasobwa:</div>
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<p>I’m to reject the PR from God if I don’t like it.</p>
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<p>Sorry, this is too funny. I am just imagining you squinting at your screen first thing in the AM</p>
<p><code>PR#13423: Adds Platypus opened 3 hours ago by God +12537/-12</code></p>
<p>”WTF is this AI BS?!”</p> 
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								<p><img src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/images/emoji/apple/joy.png?v=15" title=":joy:" class="emoji only-emoji" alt=":joy:" loading="lazy" width="20" height="20"></p>
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<p>Rejected.<br>
We have a full support of Echidnas in our backlog for years, is it the same customer’s request?<br>
Let’s please instead finally do <code>#1234 ScubaGear abstraction</code> and generalize <code>Mammalia.move/2</code> by a dependency injection <code>with: :flippers</code></p>
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