Matches my experience too. Models are not trained to push back (at the relevant moments).
rhcarvalho
DaAnalyst
I review everything and manually fix accordingly. If a task/initiative is more complex and it takes more to get there (multiple sessions), then I postpone the review for after it’s (functionally) finished and then I review EVERYTHING. Some refactoring then is delegated again to Claude. Then I review it again, some code I write manually.
Other than that, all changes always contained. 0 directory/file structures created by Claude unless I told it which ones explicitly. 0 design improvisation. When it “designs” it does so with me at the helm in the chat, never in code.
I care about my code style and comments/docs style a lot. I redact them myself and/or instruct it how to shape them.
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thiagomajesk
The thing is: knowing which kinda of sandwitch you need to make, selecting the ingredients (requirements) is a strategic decision. If you are getting unmaintainable gargabe out of your process, well, improve the process.
I think that “english is the new programming language” is a totally wrong way of looking at this. I don’t think anyone in the AI space (except Gary Tan maybe) is actually claiming that you can replace deterministic processes with non-deterministic ones (at least not that I’m aware of).
Also, I know that the term “vibe coding” is getting muddled a bit these days to mean any sort of AI-assisted workflow, but for all intents and purposes, what I mean here is probably much closer to what people once refered as “ai-assisted engineering”. If you are curious, I think this is probably the most practical guide I’ve ever seen on the matter, highly recommend reading it: David on X: "https://t.co/VA6b6kdAl6" / X.
TBH, I think that the main contention people have with this tends to dissolve when they realize that the majority of claims they can make about how an agent works, can also be made about their coworkers 
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mudasobwa
Creator of Cure
I could not disagree more. How do you know what ingredients do you need if you never made a sandwich yourself? Reading a book?
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Schultzer
In the future there is going to be two kind of developers, the once who don’t have any technical abilities, which are the plenty and lowest earning and the developer who does both and keep their critical thinking skill shaped and earn on average way more due to the kind of work they’re able to solve efficiently. None is better then the other, a kind to how the medical field works, but boy does it suck working with someone lacking critical thinking.
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dkx
I’ve done a couple of projects with agentic assistance, which worked fine. But aside from those I’m just really bored by LLMs and am not interested in any potential productivity gains they may offer, so I write everything by hand.
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thiagomajesk
The way I see it, strategic level thinking doesn’t mean you know nothing about the domain you are working on or that you are not applying any sort of critical thinking to the solution. It just means you are operating/focusing on a different level of abstraction than before.
But to go back to your example: you don’t need to know how to make a sandwitch to be able to order one, eat it and decide if the ingredients go well together. With enough tasting, you can achire intuition of what works and what doesn’t and which flavor profile you like more (solutions need requirements).
There’s an video from Thorsten Ball from earlier this year which I think describes his process very well: Thorsten Ball on X: ""If I know it works, what do I care about the code?" I went into the snowstorm to record another video." / X (and models are much more capable today then they were then)
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mudasobwa
Creator of Cure
Do you have any OSS code written using this approach I could check to back up your words?
When you quote Bernard Shaw, it makes sense to leave a reference to the original author of the dictum.
Bruteforcing sandwich ingredients until it tastes! Love it.
I have no idea who Mr. Ball is and I don’t have as much spare time as to listen to somebody’s blah-blah-blah, sorry.
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thiagomajesk
I haven’t really done much OSS work recently, so no, not really. What I’m sharing here is what my experience has been with my coworkers over the last year (also, no idea who Bernard Shaw is or what you are referring to).
Well, it seems you came into this conversation with your mind already made up, so I don’t think there’s any amount of evidence (anedoctal or not) that would convince you otherwise. So, I’ll kindly bow out here 
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mudasobwa
Creator of Cure
I think the take “I cannot prove my words by anything but some video from some dude” cannot be considered evidence. The code would be evidence, but you have none.
Funny enough, that’s the very common pattern from literally everyone saying “I am now the Big Super-Duper Architect, I don’t need to write any code.” And, rhyming to the punchline, no code ever exists to be shown.
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