sezaru

sezaru

Hello,

Setting the timeout value in my GenServer calls was always something that I found uncomfortable, it seemed to me that 5 seconds default was kinda a “random” number and I was not sure what number I needed to use.

At the same time, I was scared of using :infinity for it since you rarely see an example using it, so I thought it was not safe (I thought you would be stuck if the callee died or something like that).

Well, looking deeply I found this link Thoughts on when to use ‘infinity’ timeouts for gen_server:call and friends. They do discuss the call default timeout and says that it should be :infinity by default.

After that, I did some tests and indeed it seems to me to be very safe to use it as the default (and only use a timed timeout when it really makes sense). It fixed a lot of issues I had with timeouts when I changed the backend machine processing power which would often trigger these timeouts.

So, my question is a two-part one (sorry for that), the first part is, what is your opinion about that? Maybe Genserver documentation should be more clear about it (If it is I couldn’t find it sincerely)? Maybe we should have :infinity as the default timeout for calls as the link suggests?

The second part of the question is in regard of other timeouts configurations in the system that too are not really clear if they are safe to use :infinity or not.

For example, Ecto.Repo, you have the :timeout parameter for your config, this is what the documentation tells about it:

The time in milliseconds to wait for the query call to finish. :infinity will wait indefinitely (default: 15000)

As you can see, it mentions :infinity, but it is not clear (at least to me) if the query call is a Genserver.call or it is the call to the database server. If it is the first, I would consider safe to use :infinity since if the callee dies, we will not be stuck. But if it is referencing the database server, then my guess is that it could simply crash/disappear/whatever and it would never return from it, basically being locked in this call forever.

So, the second part of my question is, is it safe to use :infinity for the case of Ecto.Repo as an example? Do you know other libs that would not be?

Thank you very much.

Showing Posts 1 to 10

lucaong

lucaong

Indeed, in recent Elixir/Erlang versions, setting the GenServer call timeout to :infinity is a good default in my opinion: it is generally safe, does not depend on arbitrary timeouts, does not require special handling of messages that come late if the caller rescues failures, and can provide a back pressure mechanism in some cases. If the GenServer crashes, the caller will be notified, so it won’t be hanging forever. One case when it would hang though, is if your GenServer handles the call with a {:noreply, state} and then never sends a reply for whatever reason.

As for Ecto.Repo, I am personally not sure about the implication of the timeout.

asummers

asummers

IMO :infinity an an antipattern. It could be easily replaced with 3 hours and have the same effect. Should this run for 3h? Probably not. So why say it can run for infinity? If I have an Ecto query that has to e.g. take a whole table lock, and it can’t get the lock (say for TRUNCATE), giving it an infinity timeout will cause it to hold a DB worker forever. Get enough of these and you have major resource contention on your DB.

tiagodavi

tiagodavi

It makes sense.

sezaru

sezaru OP

I know what you mean, but at the same time, you are referring IMO to a specific situation, for that case you can consider a lower timeout because you want it to not lock something for too much time.

The point is that for the majority of the calls you would do, this would not be the case, and for that cases, it doesn’t seem to me that it makes sense to use anything but :infinity with the guarantees that @lucaong enumerated.

tiagodavi

tiagodavi

I needed to use :infinity in my tests because I was expecting a rabbitmq server returns. It works fine, but what @asummers said makes more sense.

asummers

asummers

If I have a single GenServer there’s only one message queue, so it exhibits the same resource contention as a DB. You can model this differently, of course, but naively using :infinity everywhere has the potential to deadlock your whole app. There are cases where you do need :infinity but I can’t think of any off the top of my head where saying 3 weeks or some equally silly large number would be less appropriate.

lucaong

lucaong

The thing is, speaking about asynchronous calls in general and not referring to GenServer, it makes sense to explicitly timeout when something takes more than reasonable. With GenServer though, if the call times out, the caller fails, but the server is still running and trying to produce the result even after the timeout. In other words, the deadlock would still be there, as the GenServer would be still blocked. If one really wants to free up resources when an operation takes too long, a custom timeout logic on the GenServer side is better than a timeout on the caller.

Conversely, using a timeout of :infinity would at least ensure that if there is an unreasonable delay, it surfaces immediately. The right action to take is then to enforce a timeout logic that cleans up resources, which is not what the GenServer.call/3 timeout does.

The GenServer timeout was absolutely necessary back when gen_server could crash without the caller knowing about that. Nowadays it’s generally not the case anymore.

sezaru

sezaru OP

That is a very good point that I was not aware of but it makes total sense if you think about it. The caller will be free but the callee would be still “locked/blocked” doing the job the caller requested.

sezaru

sezaru OP

When you say potential deadlock you mean when the caller calls the callee and the calle calls the caller back?

Yeah, I can see that you would get a deadlock forever, but at the same time I don’t see setting the timeout number to something big would help in this case, you would get this GenServer blocked for 3 weeks anyway until the timeout and then probably not too much time later a similar call would come that would block it again to more 3 weeks.

Personally I would consider this specific case as a software bug that needs to be fixed in the code side and not mitigated by timeout parameters.

shanesveller

shanesveller

I would actually say that IME :infinity timeouts have precisely the opposite effect. They obfuscate the problem because operations which can never succeed (in a reasonable time frame or not) do not result in local, actionable errors that can be handled at the calling site, logged, observed, or otherwise raised for human attention. They just result in deadlocks and upstream timeouts where someone else above you in the logical hierarchy chose not to use :infinity, perhaps at your load-balancing layer in the case of a web service.

The only way I can say :infinity helped me do discovery while understanding a problem was by providing a big red flag that I can search the codebase for to find the likely offender, which I assume is not how you meant this.

Where Next? Top

Trending in Questions Top

RSP87
I’m working on a project that simulates the bumbl example in the programming phoenix book. It acts almost like an email client. We have a...
New
nseaSeb
Hello, I know there is an approach for handling lists that allows for optimized traversal, but I can’t recall the specific method (somet...
New
brecabral
Documentation While reading the Scoped Routes section, I noticed that the documentation currently refers to a problem without explainin...
New
RemyXRenard
I’m seeing that a list inside a Kino.DataTable will be interpreted as a charlist, even if the Kino.configure() is set to charlists: :as_l...
New
velrest
So my question is quite simple and i have found no conclusive answer on forum, google or AI. Should we use :erlang.float for Integer to ...
New
samoloth
Hi, I’ve just set up an application with ash_authentication. There is only magic link strategy for now, so there is no confirmation add o...
New
asweet-confluent
I recently noticed that Elixir’s Logger defaults its primary log level to :debug when no :logger, :level application configuration is pre...
New

Other Trending Topics Top

JesseHerrick
Hey, I’m Jesse and I’m the main contributor behind Dexter, a full-featured, lightning-fast Elixir LSP optimized for large codebases. It s...
New
mudasobwa
I am happy to introduce the very α version of the new programming language compiled to BEAM. Welcome Cure. It has literally three kille...
New
marciok
Hi there! We created Gust: A task orchestrator inspired by Airflow. For those who have never heard about Aiflow, it’s a Python-based wor...
New
mhanberg
Hi everyone! The first release candidate for the Expert language server project is now available! We’ve published a press release detai...
New
jimsynz
Beam Bots (or just BB for short) is a framework for building fault-tolerant robotics applications in Elixir using familiar OTP patterns. ...
New
Dmk
Xamal is a deployment tool for Elixir apps that deploys native releases to bare metal servers over SSH. It’s a port of GitHub - basecamp/...
New

We're in Beta

About us Mission Statement

Options

Thread Display Mode




Thread Preview

Skip Thread Previews