But nobody’s in denial. The team have acknowledged they are working on the guides for Contexts.
Well that’s not what you said, you said something completely different:
As long as there is a charity and a hungry kid in the world I am not going to buy a book on a subject just to spend money because I can…
But back to your newer point of assessing a framework - I suppose we all approach new tech in different ways. I generally watch videos and talks first and foremost as well as read a broader overview; I don’t need to get my hands dirty or know the minor details to know enough about something to make an assessment as to whether it is something I night like or something I want to investigate further (/learn).
But this is a moot point - it’s been said over and over now, the guides are going to be updated for Contexts soon, and if there is still a perceived barrier after that, it can be discussed in a more informed way.
I’m beginning to think this thread needs to be closed until then…
the point of diversity of styles has absolutely nothing to do with the team (I have seen none of them in denial claiming ELixir or Phoenix is reknown for their diversity in training materials). Diversity of styles of training material is NOT a team issue its a community issue. guides are not going to provide diversity of styles by themselves. Thats not the meaning of diversity/variety. My points are not new (as any one honest enough can see from reading my post #126 onward) you just failed to get the same point all along. Like I said if you didn’t get it yet you are not going to so my discussion with you ends for me right here in my last post in response to you on that . “We are world reknown rah rah” fandom types conversations in the absence of reality are a waste of time but unfortunately people fall so deeply in love with some tech it hurts their cause. Thats precisely when similar communities have begun to suck and suck badly.
But it doesn’t matter what I (or they) think - if you think the guides are lacking, please tell us where and how you think they can be improved. That is the only constructive way forward.
I’m struggling to see your point. There are huge resources for Elixir, much more than for other similarly aged languages. Just look at our Learning Resources sections.
There are
books published by top tech publishers
self-published books
community made online courses
online courses by Pluralsight, Udemy, PragDave, Pragmatic Studio etc
learn by doing with CodeSchool
screencasts both paid and free
hundreds of conference talks
even more blog posts
…and much much more. I don’t think I’ve seen any language get as much learning material in as much time. If you know of any please let me know!
The amount of published books itself is quite staggering (and a great indication on where top tech companies are placing their bets). It took Erlang 7 years before it got its first book.
I’m not one to rest on laurels, but I think that if you are expecting more than this at this stage, well, then you are just being a little unfair. Personally I think the community is doing an amazing job on learning material (but again, you are welcome to leave constructive and actionable feedback on how things can be ‘improved’.)
This thread in particular become toxic a long time ago.
I’ve seen people with no programming background use GOTO successfully in crazy scripts that do very complex things very well. I can’t imagine something like Contexts really stopping someone who wants to get something done.
The Context generators themselves are just learning tools. People who really want to get stuff done will ignore the lessons Contexts are trying to convey and just get things done. This happens in every language or framework. People who are more interested in how to be more build maintainable software would pay more attention to the lessons in the Context generators.
However, If you really just don’t think it’s the right choice, then prove it. The Phoenix generators are just another project inside the repo. Write your own generator project, publish it, advertise it, and get the mindshare of the community.
Then your point will be made in a sufficient way without being toxic towards other people.
Indeed. This thread has diverged pretty wildly at this point. @MikeAnthonyif you’d like to make a thread discussing the significance of learning styles WRT Elixir documentation feel free. I think this particular thread has run its course.
Ok, I think it’s time to bring this thread to a close - not because I want to stifle debate, but because:
The thread has served its purpose; it’s made the point that Contexts are currently “difficult to grok for some people”
The Phoenix team have, I’m sure, noted the feedback
Many of us are commenting prematurely; we can’t really judge Contexts until the guides and docs have been updated
I think once Contexts have been more or less finalised and the docs and guides have been updated we can re-open the discussion, but for now, I think we are just going around in circles and debating something that some of us don’t adequately understand.
I’m sure the Phoenix team will start dedicated threads for specific discussion points should they feel the need to.
Please feel free to start a thread (or use one of the existing ones) if you have any specific questions regarding Contexts, but for general feedback, please bear with us for a little while.
As mentioned in my first reply to this thread, I want to reiterate that I have seen all of this happening with REST and Rails 1.2. It is understandable the lack of materials about contexts, it is a new feature still on RC and we need to get feedback before we get to final. Once everything stabilizes, it will be smooth sailing.
The fact a lot of people are trying Phoenix’s release candidates is a great problem to have. But it means we also need to be more careful/responsible when those RCs come out and make sure we have at least some docs and material ready upfront.
