himaraya
I read this thread from last year and got curious about the mentioned black-boxing “fix” for hot reloading with static types. How feasible is it? I read that a statically typed version of Erlang was abandoned years ago due to speed and complexity concerns.
Edit: Another thread mentions other obstacles including backwards compatibility to statically typed Elixir. I also came across Elchemy, which doesn’t seem production ready. Thoughts appreciated!
Trending in Discussions
Hey there,
It’s been more than a year since we started using LiveView as our main UI library and building a whole library of UI componen...
New
Hey folks,
I wanted to share with you a project I’ve been working on for a while: It’s an Open Source (AGPLv3) newsletter tool. Think Ma...
New
Hi there! :wave:
@frigidcode and I (but mostly him) have been running an Elixir Book club, we’re almost done with Designing Elixir Syste...
New
Fly’s CEO posted this recently - Turn And Face The Strange · The Fly Blog
It says that Fly is going all-in on sprites, which is a worry ...
New
In my third year of college, around 2010, I found Erlang. A few years later, I found Elixir. I liked the ideas at once: many small proces...
New
Hi everyone,
I have 8 years of production experience with Erlang/OTP and I’m just starting to get to know Elixir. What would you learn f...
New
I’ve been tinkering with Lynx (by José) via hold_ledger. I used AI to write the code, a separate specification, the tests, and the Lean p...
New
Other Trending Topics
Hey there,
I haven’t seen a list of useful Elixir specific skills for the popular AI tools yet so I’m starting one here with my first.
...
New
I fully migrated to my own harness from Anthropic/Gemini and I think it’s time to share it. Welcome DSH, the DeepSeek Harness, fully writ...
New
Hey. Is there anyone here who creates agents in their apps? Not talking about using agents, but creating them. I’m finding it pretty diff...
New
(I just needed to vent somewhere and LinkedIn is full of hope, or hype, I’m not sure which exactly)
AI dream has many faces, but general...
New
With AI doing more of the implementation work, I’ve been wondering how much coding I should deliberately keep doing myself.
My main conc...
New
In 2021 I started a new library called Tempo with the objective of modelling time as a set of intervals - not as instants. In 2022 I gave...
New
Categories:
Sub Categories:
Forums
Popular Tags
- #ecto
- #liveview
- #troubleshooting
- #learning-elixir
- #library
- #deployment
- #erlang
- #testing
- #genserver
- #mix
- #absinthe
- #remote-other
- #otp
- #plug
- #how-to-question
- #macros
- #postgres
- #elixirconf
- #channels
- #exunit
- #discussion
- #code-sync
- #podcasts
- #javascript
- #onsite
- #dialyzer
- #docker
- #authentication
- #ai
- #umbrella
- #full-time-contract
- #podcasts-by-brainlid
- #blog-post
- #ecto-query
- #elixirconf-us
- #elixir-ls
- #phoenix_html
- #iex
- #graphql
- #genstage
- #websockets
- #supervisor
- #advent-of-code
- #distillery
- #processes
- #elixirconf-eu
- #api
- #forms
- #security
- #hex










Showing Posts 1 to 5- Show Best Posts
- Show All (oldest first)
- Show All (newest first)
lpil
At Facebook they actually do hot code swapping of Haskell, which is a statically typed language.
The rules they follow is that the swapped in object code must export functions of the same type as the previous version. There is nothing checking these types are correct other than human testing, so it’s effectively dynamically typed at this point.
Alternatively we could define an opaque “any” type and force the user to safely decode their data on code change. This isn’t an option for Haskell as their runtime needs to know the memory layout of the data as it is not designed for dynamic data.
I could imagine a system like this working for a typed Erlang. If I might self publicise a little, I’m working on a typed language for the Erlang VM at the moment, and I plan to experiment with this here
GitHub - gleam-lang/gleam: ⭐️ A friendly language for building type-safe, scalable systems! · GitHub
For more info on the work at Facebook the keynote from Simon Marlow at this year’s Haskell exchange was very informative.
himaraya
Thanks! I just came across Elchemy – how’s Gleam different?
lpil
Elchemy is an alternatively compiler for the Elm programming language that outputs Elixir rather than Javascript, Gleam is an entirely new language.
The most obvious differences between Gleam and Elm are that Gleam has side effects, Elm does not, Elm has autocurrying, Gleam does not, Elm has a Haskell like syntax, Gleam has a Rust like syntax, and Gleam has a slightly more expressive (though unfinished) type system as it has typed modules. Elm’s compiler is written in Haskell, Elchemy’s compiler is written in Elm, Gleam’s compiler is written in Rust. Both languages are relatively simple functional programming languages that prioritise safety and clarity.
Elm and Elchemy are more mature than Gleam (which isn’t use useable currently). Gleam was designed to be a BEAM language while Elm was not- because of this I think that once ready Gleam will more suited to writing Erlang/Elixir style OTP programs than Elchemy is, though that’s possibly my personal bias.
Other projects worth checking out are the Alpaca language GitHub - alpaca-lang/alpaca: Functional programming inspired by ML for the Erlang VM · GitHub and the Purescript to Erlang compiler GitHub - purerl/purescript: A small strongly typed language that compiles to Erlang (not JavaScript) · GitHub
Qqwy
It’s interesting to note that in Haskell, there is a library to facilitate upgradable types, called SafeCopy, which is used in some systems, but it does not seem to be entirely painless:
From user ‘Mightybyte’ on the Haskell ∪ Chat Discord group:
lpil
Another problem with that approach is that it depends on the old version being known. If you write the incorrect type there or the update is applied to a node running different code to what you expect then your upgrade will fail and likely lose state.