Ninigi
I just failed my dream job
I have been a developer for around 8 years. I started with Ruby on Rails, and then moved on to Elixir and Phoenix.
I have been working with Elixir almost from the start, because my predecessor forced me to. I have been working with Phoenix, before they made the switch to DDD - which was what made me believe into the framework whole heartedly.
I have been a mentor to people, in Ruby as well as in Elixir.
I made a package that was there before Jason included many of its features.
I might know more about how Phoenix works, than most people working with it.
For a long time, I tried my best to pass on my knowledge on this forum.
But I failed in a simple code exercise, I knew I failed when I saw their faces.
I knew when they asked the questions, I knew I screwed up…
But I have never seen an opportunity like this.
For all the people asking about job opportunities, this… should show you that maybe that there aren’t as many, but the opportunities given, are sooooo good!
Don’t give up people, I know we can make it!
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dimitarvp
OK, if there’s anybody on this forum who wanted to know more about me, well, you’ve just hit the jackpot. Here goes nothing!
Interview processes are broken beyond repair, people bring a ton of unjustified bias and unreasonable expectations towards candidates and it’s extremely rarely to “fail” an interview entirely through your fault only. 95% of the time both sides “failed”.
Here are some examples from the last several years of my rather colorful career:
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I’ve done miracles for some of my employers (their words, not mine) – like writing shell scripts to refactor big chunks of their code (without errors!) or make various financial reports spanning tens of millions of records in mere minutes – while I couldn’t bring myself to code a simple Phoenix controller with 5 actions while at other employers.
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I’ve made code that (almost) automatically generates tests that cover 90% of newly introduced modules by using other files (declarative programming, I suppose?) while I couldn’t bring myself to reverse-engineer a simple chat system spanning 10-15 files and then extend it.
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I’ve been passed on interviews because out of 12 expectations for a homework just 1 of them I’ve did very sightly worse than another candidate.
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I’ve been asked to answer the same questions in a questionnaire with 30+ questions twice just because an HR was stubborn and refused to read a reply to an email. I already passed their technical test and the VP of engineering wanted me but I told them to rely less on bureaucracy and not waste people’s time, so I passed them.
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I’ve had to code an entire homework live for 2 hours. Never doing that again, even though the guy was impressed and said I did fantastic.
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At the same time I’ve had a complete freeze during an interview when I couldn’t solve a relatively simple problem that required processing a lot of data that I couldn’t all load into memory. Can’t blame them for being unimpressed but I can and did blame them for not engaging in a discussion and focusing less on just one algorithmic task. (What was even more maddening is that the solution came done and baked in my head like 8 hours later…)
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I’ve had one of the most perfect work opportunities last year and I started and we parted ways only 4 months in because they wanted me to work on a crappy laptop (that they sent me) that had its deafening fans on at least 50% of the time and because the team was too busy to actually onboard me. I eventually muscled through everything (30+ projects) but it was too late by then. Still regret losing that one but in retrospect they were not a good team to have, and they treated people like they have to pass a rite of passage through hell so they deserve to keep the job. Still, the company and the problems were very interesting, and the pay was excellent.
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I also managed to fail a simple interview with a GenServer coding task. Why? Because I didn’t memorize how to code one. I was told I can Google stuff but it was visible that the interviewer decided against me after I solved the exercise after 2 minutes of reading the docs.
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On one of the most chill workplaces I’ve ever had I never managed to bring myself to be actually productive due to being in a very rough mental health spot back then. Ironically I and others were fired for completely different reasons: the company was a startup and the investments dried up.
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Another company switched from Elixir to F# overnight because the CEO had a lunch with a Microsoft Azure representative. Boom, fired.
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In my last job I’ve specifically told the technical director what I’m good at and what I don’t want to do. The team didn’t care, they gave me the stuff I hated regardless eventually. Couldn’t bring myself to even give a good explanation of a lack of progress on the standup meetings. Decided to leave after 3 months with them.
There are more (did I mention that I’ve had a colorful career?) but the point is: train yourself to let go of such accidents or occurrences. Both hiring and employer’s expectations can be severely detached from your reality and that’s very rarely your fault.
Just keep trying. It will be okay. Just don’t stop.
sb8244
I took an interview at Mongo out of college. I took 2 hr car ride, then 1.5 hr train into Central NYC. 4 back to back interviews without leaving the room. Final interview with a VP and we’re talking about my favorite data structure: Fibonacci heap. “Can you write the fib function on the board?”
Complete blank slate. Panic. I wasn’t able to do it. Mentally was drained and just completely blanked. I didn’t get the role and I’d wager that was a big contributing factor.
That was a dream job, although looking back I’m very happy I didn’t get it. I ended up somewhere better that, most likely, had a better outcome for me.
thiagomajesk
IMHO this happens because some companies prefer to define seniority based on some specific technical knowledge they deem important (even if it’s completely unrelated to the work) instead of considering the candidate’s soft skills, career experience, and what that person can actually bring to the table. Of course, technical knowledge is important, however, jobs where you have to be super-specialized, are really rare and require a very specific skill-set.
This kinda behavior leads to some very weird biases like, for example:
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Once I got rejected on a job interview in an agency because I didn’t remember how to calculate a password complexity given some constraints… The question was framed along the lines of “how long a machine with a processing capacity of X would take to brute-force a password constructed with a given subset of chars”.
The interesting part is that they were trying to hire someone to maintain some sort of integration they had with WordPress, and the fact that I had (at the time) 6+ years of experience with web development didn’t contribute at all to my case, go figure. The cherry on top was talking to the other candidate afterward and learning that he was actually studying that discipline at college (he was in the second semester or something like that) but he didn’t actually have any experience working in the field.
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Another time I got on the phone with a recruiter that was in deep **** needing a senior developer. I explained that I didn’t have the time to meet with them that day, but they insisted on their urgency. I moved an important appointment that I had and traveled to another city to meet with them for the interview. After an hour-long talk with the CEO, I went to talk to the CTO for another hour where he asked me a lot of technical questions. After that, even though the knew I was on a tight schedule, the CTO wanted me to do some sort of generic knowledge pop quiz he had prepared and after I explained I didn’t have enough time that day to do that, he explained that he couldn’t continue with my interview process because he needed a “holistic view” of my skills.
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On another situation I was called to do an interview where I was the only one that passed all the interview steps but got rejected in the end because I didn’t have any certificates (even with a lot of experience). They had this policy where senior developers had to have an X amount of certificates to be considered “seniors”.
The lesson I take from those experiences is that most of the people hiring are not qualified to hire people. They are not even (most of the time) qualified to deal with people in the first place. On the technical side though, beyond having unreasonable expectations, I’d say these companies don’t want to invest resources in hiring people that are good problem solvers, have decent people skills, or have at least some level of critical thinking… Unless of course, if you manage to prove in some sort of tribalistic rite of passage that you are in fact worthy.
PS.: People in our field need to learn how to be more like humans and less like computers.
Last Post!
D4no0
A very interesting and educative topic!
I will share some of my personal experience as someone who has only about 5 years of experience.
I started my career in a small company from Moldova. The interview process was just a 15 minute talk, where mostly the owner would tell me about his ideas of a new project that I would participate in developing, after that he accepted to hire me with the salary I wanted. I asked him later why he would not make a proper technical interview, he responded that the interview would not show anything he needed, for him it was easier to ask one of the teachers from university for feedback.
It was one of the most interesting experience from my career. That project idea he had, I was assigned to lead and make it happen, it taught me a lot of hard lessons and mistakes that I think even people working tens of years could not anticipate. After working for about 3 years I had quite an impressive technological stack and development experience with very limited resources, however my soft skills did not improve that much, because we worked with a small team.
A while later sadly the company almost went under because one of the clients bailed out on a project where we used elixir, it’s the same thing mentioned on this thread about the fear of client that he will not be able to find new developers who will maintain the elixir solution if we were to quit.
After that the lack of soft skills bit me very hard, after about 3 months of interviews for an elixir position, I had to give up and ended up being hired at a small company in my country to work in golang. The sad thing is that the interview process was easy because I was recommended by a former colleague, however the mentor I was assigned was just pressuring me constantly, even though I made it clear before that I had no production experience in golang.
Almost a month passed and I received an elixir offer at a startup and I accepted it because I couldn’t take being watched every hour by the mentor. Sadly that job would not last, once again because of my bad soft skills. The CEO came from VS ecosystem, having worked in slow moving industries, had no prior experience with either elixir or CI/CD practices. I was tasked to design and build their backend in elixir. It was all going smoothly until he was insisting on using some questionable practices, that I would start to argue and give him arguments on why it was wrong, and the mistake I did was to not let go and let him see the result for himself. I made an enemy out of him, so I had to leave the company shortly after.
Now the biggest thing that bite me in the ass was the period after that, I had a very rich resume for my years of experience and I thought that would help me land a job easier, that was not the case.
In my country recruiters get intimidated if they see more than 2 technologies in resume, especially when they see elixir, that they and their engineers never heard about. After a lot of painful interviews and tasks, I was able to realize that the resume should be more or less tailored to the position they require, because I would always fail at the interview with the recruiter or never get contacted, because they needed someone with X years of experience in their stack, most of them don’t care about other things. The other realization I made was that soft skills are much more important, as the technical interview is mediocre usually (at least for positions I applied for).
Now after about 6 months without a job, I was hired, however I will either focus more on soft skills from this point on or try to move slowly to a different industry.
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