Pros/cons of using a code editor distro vs managing your own plugins (split thread)

It would also be the reason for me to seriously hurt myself. :003:

I’ve spent way too much time tinkering. I’ll be the first to agree that we should learn our day-to-day tools inside out. Intellectually I agree 100%. Emotionally I can’t stand the thought.

Using AstroNvim is my perfect guard rails until my mental health recovers to a sufficient degree that I become a proper “hacker” again.

3 Likes

Don’t get me wrong, I long for a world in which I could trust software to be well-built and do what it says on the box without betraying the user at every turn. I can still (barely) remember when that was the world we lived in!

I really wish I could use something like Zed and not have to deal with spending a week learning to configure my text editor, but the thing about VC tech products is that it’s not a matter of if they will betray you but when. And unsurprisingly they’ve already pivoted from “fast text editor with GPU rendering” to “this baby can fit so much AI in it”.

For the record I have hardly touched my nvim config in ages and it still gets the job done every day. I’ll have to write a blog post on how to set it up since we clearly do not have enough of those!

2 Likes

Exactly. I loved the idea but when I saw what people are behind it, nope, sorry but just nope. Their playbook is the same every time: offer a very compelling 100% free product, build up a critical mass and then people’s sunk cost fallacy kicks in – they will not leave and will start defending the questionable practices… “who cares about telemetry, it helps them improve the product”, “AI is entirely local, it’s a pretrained model” (and it’s not, it’s just making network API calls), to my favorite “they have to make money somehow” while turning a completely blind eye to the “how”, which is usually shady as hell.

For the record, I probably would pay something like 50-60 EUR a year for AstroNvim or something similar. But companies like JetBrains completely overdid it… their individual plans begin at 170 EUR! And you are locked to their ecosystem. Yeah no, thanks.

You do understand that’s hugely subjective, right. Technically you can never touch notepad and it would still get the job done. :smiley: I use AstroNvim because people constantly improve its speed, visual styling, and general utility. Things I simply don’t have the time, energy and motivation to do.

There has only been one case when I was not okay with their defaults. I got pissed but commandeered some patience and fixed it in 20-30 minutes (and I hate to admit it but emerged enlightened about how the really good package manager for Neovim – called lazy – works).

2 Likes

Aha, the funniest bit I saw was when they announced their “own” “open source” completion model, which of course was literally just Qwen fine tuned on something like 400 FIM examples. Which would actually be pretty cool if it ran locally (it’s a 7B model!), but instead of course it sends everything straight to the “cloud” by default. Missed opportunity!

I suppose - I’m definitely not telling anyone what to use! I just thought I’d mention that I’m personally happier without a distro.

In my case this is exactly what I’m trying to avoid. The last time I had to update my nvim config was when they shipped a new default colorscheme and it totally broke my Elixir syntax highlighting (way too many things were the same color).

Of course if I wanted to improve general utility I would add more plugins - but I’m usually just fine!

Put catpuccin in your list of plugins that AstroNvim will automatically manage, add one Lua line activating it, done.

I get it, dude, not judging, just don’t make it sound like it’s a nuclear science. AstroNvim won me over because it has a lot of goodies BUT it’s very configurable, and rather easily too.

Maybe I was not clear: it was neovim that updated the default theme and broke my config! My point being: I do not want anyone changing my theme :slight_smile: I switched to another (built-in) theme and I am just fine.

My point about plugins is not that they’re hard to manage (the distros make it easy) but that I am very avoidant of dependencies in general. For example there was a prominent GH action compromised quite badly just in the past week. This is why I use Elixir instead of JS - far fewer deps to worry about, and if anything is missing I get to make my own, which I enjoy!

Yeah I get that and I follow the news but at this point I just can’t get more worried than I already am. Modern IT is a huge mess, many people allowed it and it’s not my fault so let them suffer. :smiley:

But I don’t think we should get as paranoid though. Still, personal choices. Cheers.

1 Like

The worst trend in software and tech has been aggressively stripping users of the right to make choices about their own devices. In that context, it is wonderful that we can both choose to use nvim so differently without issues :slight_smile:

1 Like

Oh I’d take it much further if I could but we don’t have any other meaningful choice outside Windows, Linux and macOS.

Yeah, that’s why I will go back to Linux sooner rather than later. I don’t want to wake up to my Mac telling me 10 more things I can’t do with the device I bought with money I worked fair and square for.

Haiku OS might be another option but again, no patience for tinkering lately. We’ll see.

1 Like

The War on General Purpose Computation

Tools like Neovim and Linux are a sort of miracle.

Ollama, Huggingface and SimpleX - beautiful new tools.

If we only had options in mobile phones

1 Like

Not to be elitist ahole or to brag but me and many of my acquaintances were seeing it clearly as far back as in 2003. :person_shrugging: It was extremely obvious that the corps will feign being friends with us and then try to take over.

And thousands of small steps from them over the years have proven it.

But privileged programmers and other techies preferred to invent their 2946th LISP interpreter and blabber about boring computing problems that have zero relevance to almost anything out there and not avoid this now almost inevitable state of affairs as of today.

And then they go to HN and post crap like “What can we do about this?”… :rage:

They are naive like puppies.

Yeah, we don’t. But Android is pretty hackable. Though to be honest, me having a well-curated PiHole probably solves 90% of all problems with Android, I would bet.

1 Like

Hi all, I’ve moved these posts here as it’s a big enough topic in itself :blush:

2 Likes

Who’s behind it?

I’ve been meaning to check it out ever since I learned it had become open source but just haven’t had time.

I see now that it is endorsed by José so that in itself makes me want to give it a go even more :smiley:

They don’t make it obvious and don’t advertise it but I’ve read a while ago on HN that they are VC-backed. And I believe we all know how that usually ends.

I don’t doubt Zed btw. I checked it out, watched videos before. It’s fantastic, to me it ticks literally all the boxes.

But when I saw it’s VC-backed, I lost faith that it will not be hijacked as a personal data harvesting farm and a vector for pushing undesired AI features on people.

I’d love to be wrong. But I can’t be blamed for having a functioning pattern-matching part of my brain.

1 Like

Makes me wonder why José would endorse an editor…

Why not - if he likes something, or thinks something works well with Elixir, or feels something the community would benefit from he’s perfectly entitled to champion it or speak highly of it. DHH did something similar with TextMate. After he publicly endorsed it that helped push a lot of people (me included) to go out and buy it. Things like this help make the decision process easier and if they encourage a wide adoption within a community that can add additional benefit :smiley:

I really enjoy tinkering with Vim and write my own plugins, though I will go long periods of time without touching my config. You do really have to be cognizant of the plugins you are using, though, especially if you have a lot of them. You learn which authors follow a similar style and write in a style that can play nicely together. There are also other clues of potential low-quality plugins, like ones that provide random leader mappings out of the box (that’s a pet peeve of mine).

I don’t think you can be blamed Dimi - VC backed companies have to overcome the challenge of convincing people their intentions are aligned with the hopes and desires of their users, and so it’s in their own interest to help allay any fears.

Hence if you feel strongly about it why not email them? The dev team is probably made up of people just like yourself, and so will be aware of people feeling cautious / sceptical. It’s possible they have already thought about this or have been thinking about it and your email could be the thing that pushes them to forge ahead with any plans they might have been considering.

As an example, the search engine Ecosia declared that they will never sell or take a profit (I am not sure if they were VC backed, but using purely as an example of what can be done to help put people’s minds at rest).

1 Like

Like OpenAI? :wink:

1 Like

To get things back on track: I used Doom Emacs for a while but every time an issue popped up I was lost. So I started from scratch and build my own config.

Pre:

  • I know know what package does what
  • If it’s broken I can be sure I did make a breaking change
  • Learned a lot about Emacs
  • Learned a lot about Emacs packages

Con:

  • Takes some time
2 Likes