ahmadferdous

ahmadferdous

Hi folks,

I’m an Elixir newbie trying to understand how Elixir (Phoenix) compares with Java in terms of scalability and fault-tolerance for a typical web application backend (business logic + DB).

Scalability:
Phoenix spawns a new lightweight BEAM process when it receives a new request. Because it uses lightweight process, it can spawn a high number of process to handle a lot of requests. Once we hit the scalability limit with a single machine, we add more machines to scale horizontally.
Java also has lightweight threads and by adding more machines, we can scale horizontally. Then what additional advantages does Elixir (Phoenix) have over Java?

Fault tolerance:
Elixir uses supervisor to monitor the child processes. If a child process crashes, supervisor will restart it.
Java has exception handling to catch errors gracefully. The Java app can be restarted with operational support in place.
How is Elixir (Phoenix) superior to Java in terms of fault tolerance?

Please help me understand Elixir and Phoenix better. Thanks.

Showing Posts 1 to 1

dominicletz

dominicletz

Creator of Elixir Desktop

Having worked with a big Java System (Cassandra) for many years I think there are pretty strong advantages on the Elixir/BEAM side of things. Especially for WevServices for which you want to ensure they always stay up:

Scalability:
1 Memory & GC)
Behind BEAM lightweight process model is also a superior scaling memory model. With BEAM you can easily scale to multigigabyte RAM machines and never have any garbage collection freezes. Now with Java on the other hand you will find yourself dealing with global garbage collection freezes at scale. If you scale your service and suddenly you get 1, 10 or even 100 second pauses you know you’ve got a problem. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21992943/persistent-gc-issues-with-cassandra-long-app-pauses#22002767

For me I decided at some point that I’ve spent enough hours if my life dealing with Java gc pauses to leave that tech behind for good. Also don’t fall for their marketing Java every release claims that their garbage collector has been getting so much better, but the problem is that the concept of one large memory heap is just not scaling. The memory per process of beam just scales perfectly in comparison.

2 Team size)
Expect to scale a larger team with Java. Your code size will grow quicker factor 3x or more mostly because of boilerplate and types. Don’t underestimate the impact of this, development progress will be much slower over time with Java.

3 Ops)
I can’t put into word how much time I’ve saved debugging Elixir services because of the remote shell. In Java land you’ve got JMX and JConsole, but they can’t compete at all with the power of IEx and Observer. Being able to not only inspect all running GenServers, Supervisors, etc. but also to send them commands gives you superpowers and will allow you to manage much larger deployments much quicker. Try to hunt down the infamous null pointer exception in a running deployed Java application and then compare that to the ease of doing the same in Elixir.

Fault Tolerance:
This is a clear win for Elixir, partly because of the system and partly because of the architecture it enforces. Having each request in a worker means that when one worker crashes, everything it used is cleabed up and more importantly all other workers are unaffected.
Java more like C though have the problem that an unexpected error will lead to an unknown state of the whole system. This can range from just crashing the whole system to doing really bad things to all non-crashed components. Before you’ve found all the edge cases that need to be properly handled in a Java app you will turn gray. In Elixir on the other side, “letting it crash” is often totally reasonable and doesn’t affect your uptime. More importantly though this is the default - without any extra work. In Java the default is a burning desaster until you’ve added so many exception handlers that the normal code flow becomes hard to read. At the end of the day I’ve seen Java application to crash much more frequently than Elixir apps. Let it crash - fault tolerance in Elixir/OTP - Speaker Deck

To mention here I think are also live upgrades even if they’re relatively niche. With Elixir you can build systems the never fail. Tcp connections that are keept open for months even over software updates. The way you can upgrade statefull Elixir processes through OTP releases is unique. And if you really need fault tolerance to that level Elixir is probably your only option.

Best

11
Post #1
— All posts loaded —

Where Next? Top

Trending in Discussions Top

AstonJ
As the title says, please share what you’ve been up to with Elixir. Whether that’s been learning it, looking into it, making stuff with i...
2977 92995 915
New
AstonJ
The obligatory hello world thread! Who are you and where are you from? :stuck_out_tongue:
4616 55835 594
New
caslu
I want to open this thread for you all to discuss and help those who really like Ash but are still hesitant to use it in a real project. ...
New
arcanemachine
I was working on an Ecto migration and I needed a timestamp. So, for the nth time, I looked up the different data types for timestamps, a...
New
alexslade
Fly’s CEO posted this recently - Turn And Face The Strange · The Fly Blog It says that Fly is going all-in on sprites, which is a worry ...
New
Herve37
We’re evaluating API mocking tools for OpenAPI-based projects and would love to hear what other teams are using. We’re particularly inte...
New
matt-savvy
Is there a word for the ~> symbol used in Version strings? Do you also just call it a Squiggle Arrow™ ?!
New

Other Trending Topics Top

garrison
Hobbes is a low-level distributed database for the Elixir programming language. Hobbes provides a simple, safe, and scalable storage lay...
New
jimsynz
Beam Bots (or just BB for short) is a framework for building fault-tolerant robotics applications in Elixir using familiar OTP patterns. ...
New
mcass19
ExRatatui lets you cook up rich terminal UIs in Elixir, powered by Rust’s ratatui via Rustler NIFs. Build interactive terminal applicatio...
New
Damirados
Hello everyone. After busy few months I am happy to announce v0.1.0 of Emerge & Solve. They are GUI (Emerge) and State management (S...
New
netoum
Corex is an accessible, unstyled UI component library for Phoenix that integrates Zag.js state machines using Vanilla JavaScript and Live...
New
wintermeyer
There are three potential reasons for members of this forum to have a look at https://vutuv.de You are tired or annoyed of LinkedIn. Yo...
New

We're in Beta

About us Mission Statement

Options

Thread Display Mode




Thread Preview

Skip Thread Previews