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                  hauleth
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<p>that will necessarily have to share container, for example</p>
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<p>That is the place where we disagree. Each of the applications should have their own containers and do not share stuff if not needed. I need to check, but I think that sharing FDs via UNIX socket could work between containers.</p>
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<p>Elixir should be the “responsible parent”</p>
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<p>I do not think that we should patronise such applications. From the viewpoint of the Elixir developer this may seem like a good idea, but from the Julia developer, who is accustomed to their own tooling, this may not seem like something worth their time.</p>
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<p>I <em>think</em> julia has an escape hatch where you can set the deps path</p>
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<p>IIRC there is such possibility.</p>
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<p>so forcing julia deps into the elixir project tree is “the right thing”</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t say so. I think that there should be library for the two projects to communicate with each other, but making Julia part of Elixir deployment is not worth the hassle in most cases. Julia (like R) is designed to be simple and easy for scientists, and they want to be able to just <code>Pkgs.install("foo"); using Foo;</code> and call it a day. Managing that from within Elixir would be IMHO hell of unneeded journey (as you would for example need C and Fortran compilers in your machine, that would need to be managed by Elixir as well).</p> 
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<img alt="" width="24" height="24" src="https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hauleth/48/18942_2.png" class="avatar"> hauleth:</div>
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<p>I need to check, but I think that sharing FDs via UNIX socket could work between containers.</p>
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<p>I think that it is possible, by hook or by crook to share FDs through containers via unix socket.  Do CNodes work between containers?  Also, I think you would want your Elixir app to supervise the Julia processes and julia can certainly go rogue and hog its own thread management to the point where it wouldn’t be able to service a kill request over the cnode channel.  If they’re in the same container, the elixir vm has the “out” of being able to slaughter julia at will.</p>
<p>In any case it would be easier to not bother with the dependencies so maybe I’m overthinking it, but I think that the target audience for a julia + elixir combined is not a julia developer that is a data scientist or academic researcher, it’s an elixir developer that wants to deploy something that a data scientist or academic researcher has written, or a data scientist or academic researcher that actually cares about sane deployment.  So those problems are going to have to be solved.</p> 
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<p>Do CNodes work between containers?</p>
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<p>These do. C-Nodes are treated the same way the regular “Erlang nodes”. So these even works over network (additional advantage - you can run your Erlang application on simpler machine, and run Julia code on GPU-backed beast).</p>
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<p>I think you would want your Elixir app to supervise the Julia processes</p>
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<p>Absolutely not, this is why we have system supervisors like systemd. Erlang isn’t the best solution out there for managing external processes, especially when you run it as unprivileged user. This also solves problem of “unresponsive node” you mention.</p>
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<p>If they’re in the same container, the elixir vm has the “out” of being able to slaughter julia at will.</p>
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<p>No if Julia would for example hog RAM. From within Elixir you also cannot run application in cgroup or extensively limit it capabilities (as running Erlang VM as root is generally poor idea).</p> 
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<p>Managing that from within Elixir would be IMHO hell of unneeded journey</p>
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<p>Agreed on the no reinventing the wheel. A julia project within an Elixir project, within the same git repo, would be nice though. Sort if like how a JavaScript project lives in a phoenix project. The julia sub project can still be autonomous. I would love to use exunit to drive regression tests for julia.</p> 
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<p>A julia project within an Elixir project, within the same git repo, would be nice though.</p>
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<p>Nothing prevents you from having both codebases in one repo. That doesn’t change there to be honest. The difference will be how you launch and manage components of the application.</p> 
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<p>The difference will be how you launch and manage components of the application.</p>
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<p>Ok. Ideally I want to:</p>
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<li>launch the elixir component by itself using standard elixir method for debuging</li>
<li>launch the julia component by itself using standard julia method for debuging</li>
<li>launch elixir+ julia components together using standard elixir method for production and testing</li>
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								<p>Joining this discussion late on but wanted to say that we are using both Elixir and Julia in production in a kubernetes cluster communicating back and forth over HTTP api’s. By adopting a functional approach in Julia with no state management we are able to have acceptable performance.</p> 
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								<p>We use Erlang+Julia in production.</p>
<p>We use Julia’s package compiler to create shared object files that contain the compiled version of our Julia code, its dependencies, and the Julia runtime itself. Then in Erlang we start a new operating system process (erlang:open_port/2) and run our Julia code. Our Julia code is listening for requests on its standard input and sends the responses to its standard output. (This part was inspired by <a href="https://github.com/hdima/erlport." rel="noopener nofollow ugc">https://github.com/hdima/erlport.</a>) We plan to modify our code to use sockets instead of standard IO.</p> 
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								<p>Thank you both very much for your valuable insight.  I wonder if <a class="mention" href="/u/dokie" rel="nofollow">@dokie</a> would benefit from something a bit less burdensome than all-out http parsing.</p>
<p><a class="mention" href="/u/hcs42" rel="nofollow">@hcs42</a> I’m surprised and impressed that statically compiled Julia works well enough to do that, static compilation has come a long way from the 1.0 days I guess!</p>
<p>I just quit my job and am evaluating what to do next.  I think it won’t be an elixir-julia bridge, but that would be second on my list.</p> 
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                  ityonemo
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								<p>Sorry I wasn’t able to figure out the spawnfest registration.  I was in the process of evaluating if I should quit my job due to some unexpected developments, and that consumed a lot of energy.</p> 
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