Drab and Liveview community oddities

Why do you believe people called me irresponsible for creating Elixir? Because I had some influence in the Ruby community and that would lead people to use Elixir while it was still in development. This kind of thinking completely shifted the blame from people who actually made the decision to use Elixir and put it on me. It is very unreasonable.

I should have equal voice as everybody else in here. If the reason I can’t take a stand against something is because people would take my opinion for granted or side with me without critical thought, then that’s not my responsibility. Do not take what I say as correct or take what I do for granted, whatever I do is as prone to errors as everyone else.

It is not fair for you to impose your own standards on how people should behave and then hold people to standards they have not agreed with in the first place. The fact someone contributes a lot (or not at all) should not change the responsibilities and expectations they have within the community.

It’s unfair to expect Chris or José to be 100% perfect 100% of the time - because none of us are - not you, nor I nor anyone else. In a community you aim to be understanding, sympathetic, and at times, forgiving… just like we have been with some of your own actions on this very forum. We’re all human after all, and a little compassion goes a long way.

Unfortunately I’m not seeing that same courtesy being extended to José from you here.

Maybe they agonised over what to do, maybe they worked on it so long that it completely slipped their mind. Whatever the reason I’m pretty sure there was no malice behind it (do you seriously think they wanted this situation to occur?)

Yes, as the leader of this community what José says will come under intense scrutiny - and sometimes his words or actions may be less than perfect, but we can all help by trying to make things better (and not worse). Sometimes that means by being understanding or forgiving, sometimes it means using tact and thoughtfulness.

I think it’s perhaps best to close this thread now. The OP was answered early on in the thread and as has been explained here and elsewhere, there are major benefits in something like LiveView being a part of Phoenix (we need only look around the web to see the interest it has already generated; it could well be pivotal in taking Elixir and Phoenix to the next level) something that will hopefully be better for all of us in the long run, including Grych - who, I hasten to add, has acted impeccably throughout this. The way he’s already trying to help LiveView be the best it can be makes me respect him a million times more than I already did. Perhaps we should now all do what he’s trying to do… progress things forward.

Thank you Grych, and everyone else who’s been trying to do just that.

All handled as part of a new Raxx.Kit project. Built upon eex_html and Raxx.Vew part of core.

Completely fair. I don’t think anyone in open source has a responsibility to do more than build what they like for their own project. It’s their free time after all. Not that that doesn’t mean you can’t applaud people when they do make the extra effort

Because we’re not trying to start a flame war. (As far as I understand) This thread is to do with sorting out the aftermath of the somewhat clumsy way LiveView was announced and the effect it had on the development of Drab.

I find it odd that you’re pointing fingers at them rather than yourself. You could’ve just as easily been marketing for drab and writing blogs posts to raise awareness, but instead you blame Jose and Chris

More or less, yes. What do you find so odd about that? When you have a power position in a community it becomes less and less prudent to act in certain ways.

Why are you less responsible than Chris and josé? Because you haven’t put in as much work as them?

As an issue of degree, sure, but I’m well aware he was known in the Ruby community. It really has nothing on the position he is in today, though, especially with the way this community has evolved thus far. There is a special kind of responsibility that comes with being this kind of key figure.

While your post raises some defensible points, I don’t think this part of your post has any basis on reality. You are ignoring the enormous influence that @josevalim had in the ruby language and community prior to developping Elixir. I’m a bit ignorant of Elixir’s initial history, but Inthink many people here have stated that they only decided to check ou Elixir because of José’s position in the Ruby community.

The reason they have a voice to begin with is because they’ve contributed so much. If you think things should be handled differently, all you would have to do is contribute as much or more than them. I don’t think anyone writing open source has any obligation to anyone. If someone wants to contribute in a more optimal way, do it. If they want something else that’s fine too.